Torque Banshee

[dajogejr]

Buy used parts, period....save you a ton. Look for deals from other members, other boards..and flebay.

[jmd0346]

I'm not on a soap box dude, I'm just explaining how I feel about it plain and simple. As far as the part about being different. Isn't that what it's all about? I mean come on, who wants to have the exact same thing that someone else has? I'm not getting uptight I'm just trying to justify my reasoning. And if my reasoning still isn't explained or justified then that's fine. This is a forum, it's made for discussion and opposing opinions. That's how you get things explained and worked out and stuff like that.

 

In my opinion, I hate the way a 4 stroke sounds. Even with a quiet stock exhaust your constantly getting deafened by the obnoxious sound. Again, just my opinion... To me theres nothing like being in the woods or on the track and hearing a well tuned 2 stroke hitting the powerband. AHHHHH. Anyway, I just think a 4 stroke is too monotonous. The tone never changes, just the rpms. I love the power of a 4 stroke though. There's no denying that a 2 stroke will never trump a 4 stroke when it comes to torque. My goal is to try to get as much torque as I can and to make it as trail-friendly as I can. No one ever said they were trying to make more torque than a thumping 4 stroke. I'm planning on going to a taller gear because as I said earlier, I could care less what it runs on top end because it is hard to find something that outperforms a banshee in top speed.

 

Because I'm restoring and reusing most of the stock parts I'll probably have between $2500 and 3000 in it when it is finally ready to ride. I'm doing all the work myself so that's gonna save a ton. It's not gonna be a contender, powerhouse, or whatever you wanna call it, just your ordinary nice looking, decent running banshee. Keep in mind, this is only my 2nd 2 stroke and my first banshee so I've got a lot to learn. But like I said, I just wanna make it torquey so it'll be more trail friendly and in turn be more easy to learn to ride for me...

 

 

 

Im with ya on that.

 

 

I keep hearing how great the new four pokes suspensions are too. Im not into it at all. My brothers 450R rides like a goddamn two horse wagon. I swear Its so uncomfortable to me. I rode it for a few miles a few weeks ago. Man I was so ready to get off that damn thing. It makes great power and its bone stock but damn its uncomfortable.

 

Now my Banshee on the other hand is like a Cadillac, well no Im a Ford guy, So more like a Lincoln. LOL

 

 

 

I am with alot of these guys though. Trying to make a Banshee torquey is kinda defeating the intended purpose of a Banshee. It was made to be a top end screamer.

 

I say leave it that way. Play to its advantages not try and change its disadvantages.

 

The first step is learning to ride with a top end syle of engine. Change you. Not the bike.

 

 

I think what some are saying is. Dont spend all that money and time and not end up with what you want. Now Snops setup maybe exactly what you want or it may be still lacking the Torque you are looking for. My setup makes good torque from mid range on up but still may not be what you consider torguey.

 

 

You probably wont read all that but oh well. Ive had few beers tonight and felt like given my .02.

[bigblockbanshee]

beer+banshee forum= one hell of a time

 

Ok so far I've got a few votes for lightened flywheels, 2 into 1 carbs and pipes, adjustable timing plate, new domes, etc.... anything else?

 

Here how bout this.... Sounds stupid I know but forget the "torque" banshee part. Seems I'm gonna have to change my riding style a bit for the Banshee so how bout this, let's shoot for mid-range power. And low, mid, or high-rpm whatever, what are the basic first mods a new Banshee rider would make to their stock Banshee? Again except for the cool head because I've already got that but tell me a good dome size....

Edited September 1, 2007 by bigblockbanshee

[JKJK]

I believe it is possible to get the best of both worlds with a properly set up+tuned combination of porting+parts.Anyone who has ridden my ride will tell you that. :biggrin: It has insane low end grunt with rite now power everywhere and a respectable top end pull too.

[jmd0346]

beer+banshee forum= one hell of a time

 

Ok so far I've got a few votes for lightened flywheels, 2 into 1 carbs and pipes, adjustable timing plate, new domes, etc.... anything else?

 

Here how bout this.... Sounds stupid I know but forget the "torque" banshee part. Seems I'm gonna have to change my riding style a bit for the Banshee so how bout this, let's shoot for mid-range power. And low, mid, or high-rpm whatever, what are the basic first mods a new Banshee rider would make to their stock Banshee? Again except for the cool head because I've already got that but tell me a good dome size....

 

 

 

LOL Yeah no doubt. Like you said thats what this is here for. To discuss and figure things out. SOme of these guys now their stuff. Snop has helped me alot with my electrical gremlins.

 

 

 

 

I know this is probably a little biased but... I love my setup. It has great mid range- top end power and torque. A soon as the power band hits it wants to pull the wheels up. Thats not HP thats TQ. I was the bike to beat around my area for a long time. I even had friends that used to drive 3 hours every weekend to ride with us at the sand mines around our area. LOL! Every week almost they came with something new(parts) hoping they could beat me. Several of them had Banshees.

 

I think my DMC 916's play a big roll in my setup running so well. They are a great all around pipe. Ive ridden FMFs, PC's,CPI's and T5s. The only one's Ive been beat by were the CPI's but he had more work done so its hard to compare. Actually I didnt ride the cpi bike I just raced it... like it was my job. We were rivals around here for a while.

 

 

I also have a pretty aggresive port(not full drag), Vito power pistons, Vito Hemi head with 19cc domes(150 psi), +4 timing. Alot of other little things.

[RZBansheeMan]

Not to discredit anybody else, but it sounds to me like " Snop " knows what he's talkin about for what a good " grunty / trail " engine would consist of.

I do believe however, that with a set up like his and 4mm stroker you could have a real torquey machine that would surprize a lot of people.

[bigblockbanshee]

You guys are killin me.... I may have to break down and build a 4 mil instead. That seems to be what 99% of you guys have suggested so my question here is can I build a 4 mil that's super reliable? Naturally the more mods you make to a motor the more powerful but less reliable it becomes and I don't need this thing breaking down on me on the trail somewhere... And what about prices, brands, etc.? I need the whole kit-n-caboodle, not just crank and rods. And of course I know this also brings on other mods but just clue me in....

[RZBansheeMan]

I would guess that with a " New " 4 mil crank, pistons, and port job to compliment the stroker, that you would spend a $ 1,000.00.

 

I am sure somebody could probabaly set you up with a used set of FMF pipes to try and keep your costs down, hell, maybe even a used crank.

 

I would just put some boyesen pro series reeds on your stock cages and just run your stock carbs until you can afford better reeds, intake, and better carb(s) combo.

As for your stock carbs, if I'm not mistaken, I think they can produce in excess of 60 hp.

 

I would probably aim your biggest expense at a 4 mil stroker crank, ( Longer stroke = more leverage = more torque ) Woods / Trail port job, and a good clutch probably from F.A.S.T. racing.

 

The reeds aren't that expensive on E-Gay, and I would probably look for a adjustable timing plate or you can just lengthen the holes on your stock one and bump your timing +4.

 

You can always do more, better, or different upgrades later.

 

Going to a 4 mil isn't going to reduce reliability. I think that most reliability issues are a lack of attention to the fine details. Just pay close attention to what you are doing when working on your engine, keep things clean, and routine maintenece. In all actuality you "might" increase reliabilty by building your engine for torque, you can keep the revs lower and have more power at a lower rpm than stock, therefore not revving it as hard to do the same thing as an top end built engine.

Edited September 1, 2007 by RZBansheeMan

[bigblockbanshee]

"I am sure somebody could probabaly set you up with a used set of FMF pipes to try and keep your costs down, hell, maybe even a used crank."

 

Just curious but will my T-5's not work good or better with the 4mil than the FMF's? I may have forgotten to mention that I had them. I posted it in the beginning of this thread but yes I do have a practically brand new set of T-5's...

 

What mods do I have to have to run the 4mil? Someone told me about some kind of spacer for the cylinders to accomodate the extra stroke... If I do the 4mil I won't have enough money to do carbs, reed cages, etc., will my stock carbs be ok? Are there any mods I can give them to help them out a little? Any other small mods that I can do involving machine work and such that I can do on my own? I've heard possibly porting the case or porting the stock cages a little may help... Anything to save money is something that will attract my attention. I've done tons of porting so I'm pretty confident in my skills, I doubt I'll pay anyone to do it so that'll save me a little. Give me some more ideas....

[Snopczynski]

The real good bottom end pipes are the old fmf torque pipes. Outside of doing a 2 into 1 exhaust, or the old fmf's, you can also look at pt low-mids and pro circuits. A stroker will definitely put a little hitch in your giddy up if you can pony up the cash for it. If you do a stroker though, it would be a good idea to have it ported.

[2004LEBanshee]

$1,000 good luck. im at 2,500 ish dont forget clutch carbs, intake, new head, unless you use a spacer i guess, pipes used, odd ends seals, youll be closer to two,

[RZBansheeMan]

"I am sure somebody could probabaly set you up with a used set of FMF pipes to try and keep your costs down, hell, maybe even a used crank."

 

Just curious but will my T-5's not work good or better with the 4mil than the FMF's? I may have forgotten to mention that I had them. I posted it in the beginning of this thread but yes I do have a practically brand new set of T-5's...

 

What mods do I have to have to run the 4mil? Someone told me about some kind of spacer for the cylinders to accomodate the extra stroke... If I do the 4mil I won't have enough money to do carbs, reed cages, etc., will my stock carbs be ok? Are there any mods I can give them to help them out a little? Any other small mods that I can do involving machine work and such that I can do on my own? I've heard possibly porting the case or porting the stock cages a little may help... Anything to save money is something that will attract my attention. I've done tons of porting so I'm pretty confident in my skills, I doubt I'll pay anyone to do it so that'll save me a little. Give me some more ideas....

 

 

Don't fuck around with those " GAY " spacer plates. They are not needed ! you can either cut your stock head's domes 2mm in depth if you have the tools and know how, or have it done. You could also buy a cool head or noss head and get stroker domes that are already cut for the stroker.

 

As for your pipes, Yeah your T-5's will work really well for a 4 mill motor, but if you are looking for a bottom end trailengine the FMFs or 2 into 1's are better. The T-5's are a top end pipe.

 

Now on the porting subject, what kind of knowledge or experience do you have ? When it comes to porting for a stroker motor the port windows need to be both raised and lowered for the added stroke ( changing the port timings significantly ) so unless you have that kind of experience, I would farm that out.

 

Yes porting the reed cages is a good idea and yes for right now your stock carbs will work.

 

And yes you probably will have to spend a little more that a grand to do this properly.

 

If it makes you feel any better, mine is still not finished and when all is said and done ther will be upwards of 3,000.00 dollars in to it. It's not a cubbed drag motor either, it's a stroked RZ powervalved all round engine.

[Snopczynski]

I haven't got a chance to try a 2 into 1 pipe on a 4mill yet, so until I do, I can't speak for how it will run. I am planning on doing it soon though, we have a motofast 2 into 1 pipe laying around and the silencer for it is trashed. So I got to mach up a silencer and stinger tube then run it on the stroker and see what happens.

[RZBansheeMan]

I haven't got a chance to try a 2 into 1 pipe on a 4mill yet, so until I do, I can't speak for how it will run. I am planning on doing it soon though, we have a motofast 2 into 1 pipe laying around and the silencer for it is trashed. So I got to mach up a silencer and stinger tube then run it on the stroker and see what happens.

 

Awesome, I am kinda curious to hear how it runs. I'm kinda curious to know how mine would run with a single carb, but with it being a stroked, Passion ported, RZ motor, I think it's gonna want more than a single carb could supply up to 11,000+ rpm's.

 

But I will always run dual pipes.