Triple Engine Race Classes

[FireHead]

i dont think the bigger chain will bind under too much of a load, especially if your going to be running 15 tooth and up sprockets..

 

having rollers on the shift forks could help, but the better design to prevent them from bending is what i would be interested in for sure..lemme know if you want a guinea pig for them :biggrin:

 

ive seen the shift drum be force out of the cases (clutch side) on just 14mm strokes so im really ganna have to watch this big motor with doing that closely..

 

The chain binding may have been a misleading way to describe my concern. The longer the chain has to run unsupported under load, the more it will want to take on a D shape as opposed to an oval shape. The extreme case like that is what I was calling chain bind. I don't think chain bind might be the right term for that particular phenomenon.

 

If the shift forks wind up working well, I may consider trying to give the design and the manufacturing process to one of the builders out there so that others can benefit from it.

 

I have done something a little different with repsect to capturing the shift drum and dealing with thrust through the drum. I actually didn't know people had been having problems like you described. I designed mine the way I did because I thought the OEM design from Yamaha was kind of screwey. Making the cases out of a billit of aluminum ought to help a little with the problem you describe as well.

 

So far the only thing I am unhappy with on this engine is that I couldn't come up with a better way to easily improve the shifter shaft. There is alot of torsional flex that occurs with that part that takes alot of the feel out of the shifter. Maybe by the time I am ready to do another revision of the engine I will have come up with an idea on how to fix that.

[lowriderb]

you could put a spring loaded roller on your bike.. that would keep the tension on the chain like you want..

 

 

im under the impression that they designed some of these parts while drunk.. or at least to make fun of americans..lol

 

 

 

here's the pic of my dm cylinders compared to a set of 7mm cub cylinders (same size intakes as stock)..

 

[FireHead]

you could put a spring loaded roller on your bike.. that would keep the tension on the chain like you want..

im under the impression that they designed some of these parts while drunk.. or at least to make fun of americans..lol

here's the pic of my dm cylinders compared to a set of 7mm cub cylinders (same size intakes as stock)..

 

I have seen some of the aftermarket spring loaded chain rollers and I think you are right. That sort of thing will solve my problem I think.

 

I currently work for the Japanese (through this Saturday) and their engineering process is certainly unique. Sometimes it spawns great ideas and sometimes it spawns big turds. I suppose that is true with anything, but it's pretty interesting. It's almost design by committee over there. On time delivery is always more important than the details of design

 

Intersestly enough (or not), my new company is German based. The Germans are polar opposites of the Japanese. Engineering is very individualized and the quality of the engineering work takes precident over everything else.

 

That's a great picture comparing the DM and Cub cylinders. IMO the cubs obviously had to have some compromises made with them for them to be successful using and many OEM designed Banshee parts as possible.

 

Hopefully I will be able to get some of my engine out of my work this evening and I can take some pictures of it.

[banshechick344]

From what I gather over on Planet Sand the triple cylinder engine class breaks down like this for most tracks around the Oregon area:

 

3 Cylinder Class

------------------------------

1. 1325cc and Up

2. 0-1324cc

 

The question is: What are the advantages and disadvantages of being in either of the two displacement classes and why?

 

I would ask this question over on PS, but there are alot of twats over there that buy all of their stuff as opposed to build and tend to not know what they are talking about or distort the truth to make themselves feel better. I would just assume not have to read through all that to be able to get good information from the few industry folks that are over there.

 

Hi, I realize this post is pretty old, but also noticed that no one here really was able to answer your questions about the class breakdowns. The breakdown of the triple classes doesnt have anything to do with the laydowns; most of the big laydowns are running 4 cylinders.

 

The triple classes were broke down so that the big triples (Triple Caracals and Triple Saberteeth motors) could be in a class of their own. The classes were designed with the future and mind, the 2007 Planet Sand Drag event. At the 2006 PS Drags, K&T dominated the twin classes with their Saberteeth motor, and the question was raised is it fair to race a 1100cc motor against 600-800 cc motors? The answer was no, so new classes were designed. Therefore, the triple class was broken down as well, and it came just in time. There will be some "big triples" in LA next week, should be interesting to watch

 

By the way, hope my information was helpful, and I'm not just considered a twat from over there, lol.....

[FireHead]

Hi, I realize this post is pretty old, but also noticed that no one here really was able to answer your questions about the class breakdowns. The breakdown of the triple classes doesnt have anything to do with the laydowns; most of the big laydowns are running 4 cylinders.

 

The triple classes were broke down so that the big triples (Triple Caracals and Triple Saberteeth motors) could be in a class of their own. The classes were designed with the future and mind, the 2007 Planet Sand Drag event. At the 2006 PS Drags, K&T dominated the twin classes with their Saberteeth motor, and the question was raised is it fair to race a 1100cc motor against 600-800 cc motors? The answer was no, so new classes were designed. Therefore, the triple class was broken down as well, and it came just in time. There will be some "big triples" in LA next week, should be interesting to watch

 

By the way, hope my information was helpful, and I'm not just considered a twat from over there, lol.....

The information was helpful. I don't think that you are one of the folks I dislike from PS. Unless you plan on spewtating completely untrue information about subjects that you know nothing about we'll probably get along fine. Also, I would like to point (out just un case one of my favorite retards from PS happens to read this), that being an electrician and racing a briggs&stratton go kart when you were a kid, by no means makes you a two stroke engine development expert. To complete my rant.....................just because 80% of the people purchase most of their racing products and bolt them together, then have it run by someone else on a dynamometer (some twat on PS also explained ot me via email that dynamometer is not the same thing as a dyno), does not make you the world's leading expert on anything.

 

I decided to go with the 0-1324cc class to aim the first version of my engine at. I finalized the design with the engine displacing 1316cc's. I ran through the simulation again and I think with a proper set of pipes (still not real sure where those are coming from) I should be able to theoretically put 226.1hp @ 16000'ish rpms to the rear wheels, given some convervative assumptions for frictional loss throughout the system. I am having some issues finding powervalves that will exhibit the proper operational curves for my application. I may need to make my own or use electic servo valves, neither of which I am really happy about.

 

To a certain extent the design is scalable, so I would be able to get into the larger displacement class in the future with new cases, cylinder block, and rotating assembly.

[lowriderb]

16k rpms.. wow.. i would love to hear that thing singing!!

 

now that theres some details out there got any spy photos for the rest of us to drool on??

[FireHead]

16k rpms.. wow.. i would love to hear that thing singing!!

 

now that theres some details out there got any spy photos for the rest of us to drool on??

I'll see if can come up with some pictures. My old place of work had a strict no camera policy, so I didn't take many while it was there. From there I shipped most of the engine straight up to my buddy's shop up in Bellingham,WA. As I just moved into my new place last weekend, I haven't made it up there to work on the thing yet. I think I have some pictures of the cases being anodized and the cylinder sleeves in the mill/turn.

 

I really need to work something out for a set of pipes pretty soon. Maybe I can get out this weekend and go talk to some of the ATV shops around my new place.

[lowriderb]

i think with the motor specs and all you could get matt shearer to build you a custom set of pipes, that imo would end up being about the best set of pipes you would be able to get.. specifically built parts are usually the best ones to get.. same as the motor your building..

[FireHead]

i think with the motor specs and all you could get matt shearer to build you a custom set of pipes, that imo would end up being about the best set of pipes you would be able to get.. specifically built parts are usually the best ones to get.. same as the motor your building..

I actually went and talked to Matt on the Friday before I escaped from California. My engine won't do what it is supposed to with a generic set of pipes. If I were to guess a generic big bore, out of frame pipe set that is aimed at a Banshee engine will only get me uo to 10k rpm and something like 180hp. My problem with Matt is that he said he was really busy and might not get to my pipes until next year. I am not really concerned with what the pipes cost, but that didn't seem to be able to make things get any better.

[lowriderb]

what about the snow mobile style pipes, dont most of them rev out to the rpm area's that your looking to hit?

 

when i was suggesting matt i was meaning a hand coned set of pipes...

[FireHead]

what about the snow mobile style pipes, dont most of them rev out to the rpm area's that your looking to hit?

 

when i was suggesting matt i was meaning a hand coned set of pipes...

Matt could do the work, but he is very busy.

 

The goal rpm is achievable with a somewhat normal looking pipe. I may wind up making the pipes myself. I didn't want to bnecause I am really slow at it. It would be an excuse to go buy a TIG welder and an oxy-acetylene rig. :laugh:

[!TWISTER!]

The video is posted is Dan' Hull triple is making 237Hp 142tQ without any tunning.

K&T with their 17XXcc is making something arround 350Hp and more than 400hp with the spray

 

I don't know you're goal, but good luck.

[FireHead]

The video is posted is Dan' Hull triple is making 237Hp 142tQ without any tunning.

K&T with their 17XXcc is making something arround 350Hp and more than 400hp with the spray

 

I don't know you're goal, but good luck.

I have a significantly smaller displacment than Dan and I don't plan on spraying my engine. Dan's new bike is pretty cool though. I don't really have a goal for performance at this point, so that makes it a bit more fun. I'll be happy if it starts the first time I roll it over with the dyno. I am going to go into work this weekend and figure out what I need to do to get one of my dyno cells set up for my engine. I have to start screwing around with my ignition box when it shows up as well. :geek:

[!TWISTER!]

Ok I see

Edited April 17, 2007 by !TWISTER!

[FireHead]

Ok I see

Do you happen to know exactly what Dan's triple displacement is these days? :geek: