chappy Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 Alright I have a completly stock all original 03 banshee I bought a month ago.Stock air box,filter exhaust everything same as it was from the factory.It has ran great and starts 1st or 2nd kick and the other day It started running crappy for 2 minutes and then died.I checked the gas and it was empty.So I put 2 gallons in it and tried to start it and nothing.I thought maybe I fouled the plugs so I put 2 new plugs in it and still nothing.checked the spark and plenty of spark but went a head and did the TORS removal to be sure.still sparking and getting gas so I bought a compression tester and with the throttle closed it read in the 80's each cylinder and with the throttle open it wouldn't get above 60psi while kicking and lost all the comprssion as soon as I quit kicking.I went a head and tore the top end apart and everything looks fine to me.The cylinders are smooth no scratchs and on the left and right sides of the cylinder you can still see the hone marks but not on the front and back of the cylinders its smooth but no scraths.The pistons look good also and the rings are fine and not broke so what is the deal?Can the rings look fine but still need to be replaced or what?My altitude is around 600 ft and the temp has been 40f or higher when I was riding with the stock 200 mains in it which my owners manual says is fine to 31f then I should bump up 2 220's .I am also mixing 32:1 oil same as the previous owner. Quote
miner Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 if you already have it tore down that far just do a rebuild. from what ive seen on here and heard from friends that own shees 3-4 yrs is about average before a rebuild is needed on a stocker. if your seeing no hone marks on the front or back of the cyls thats probly where the compression is leaking off. make sure the crank is still tight too before slapping on a new top end. good luck :biggrin: Quote
Forcefed Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 ... it wouldn't get above 60psi while kicking and lost all the comprssion as soon as I quit kicking.... quick question ... does your comp tester have a bleed off button ? .. and does it have an o-ring to seal at the threads ? Most comp testers have a schrader valve installed in them so that the gauge needle holds the highest reading - even after you quit kicking.... the only way to bleed it off would be to push the button. Could it be that you had a leak in the seal of the tester or a bad/stuck valve in the tester ? I`ve seen it happen many times... Quote
BansheeDan Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 ... it wouldn't get above 60psi while kicking and lost all the comprssion as soon as I quit kicking.... quick question ... does your comp tester have a bleed off button ? .. and does it have an o-ring to seal at the threads ? Most comp testers have a schrader valve installed in them so that the gauge needle holds the highest reading - even after you quit kicking.... the only way to bleed it off would be to push the button. Could it be that you had a leak in the seal of the tester or a bad/stuck valve in the tester ? I`ve seen it happen many times... the answer to the question about the rings looking good but still needing replaced: yes the rings will wear out and still look ok to the eye pulled my 01 down for the first time ever about 3 mos ago and my pistons and rings looked good too.. so i thought sweet just a hone and new rings and away we go........not!!!! it had 1.5 thousandths taper in both cyls..... so just to be safe i did the whole thing......had dan @ a&s pull it down and get it done right..... i went .040 over with mine(just because i got a .040 piston kit off ebay for 115.00) only really had to go .010 or .020 i guess what im trying to say is just what was posted earlier......if you have it down that far take the cyls to the machine shop and have them mic'd if theres no taper or egg shape to them u should be able to hone it put a new set of rings in and be done.... Dan Quote
Animalman294 Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 You may also look at your crank seal to make sure it is not leaking as well, and check your reeds. If the compression is below 100 you are going to have a hell of a time tryin' to start it............ Quote
dajogejr Posted January 22, 2007 Report Posted January 22, 2007 i went .040 over with mine(just because i got a .040 piston kit off ebay for 115.00)only really had to go .010 or .020 i guess what im trying to say is just what was posted earlier......if you have it down that far take the cyls to the machine shop and have them mic'd if theres no taper or egg shape to them u should be able to hone it put a new set of rings in and be done.... Dan So you wasted two bores (.020 and .030) just to save a few bucks on an ebay piston kit.... Sorry, hardly seems worth it in the long run to me... Yes, you're talking thousands of an inch tolerances, unless you're clark kent, you need the proper equipment to measure piston to wall clearance, ring end gap, etc.... Did you keep on kicking until the gauge no longer went up? What kind of gauge? If the bike ran fine then all of the sudden it stopped, and the piston wasn't damaged/broken and neither were the rings, your compression gauge is bad or you didn't check it properly. That bike won't start with 60PSI... You have a BAD compression gauge or weren't using it correctly...since it just ran fine. I'd bet you might have sucked a little dirt in the carbs...clogging you up. Quote
DieselTech Posted January 23, 2007 Report Posted January 23, 2007 Well, let's see...... first off, you always do a compression test with the throttle wide open, anything less produces erroneous results. Secondly, if the gauge needle drops, you have a problem with the gauge set - they are supposed to have a schrader valve in them to prevent them from leaking down (as already stated). Usually, the schrader is in the spark plug adapter end, I suggest you check that. Third, your results (80 psi w/throttle closed, 60 psi WOT) make no sense at all - you were allowing less air in with the throttle closed, therefore the compression should have been lower. Also, as previously stated, if she was running good, then quit, and everything looks ok (nothing damaged), chances are compression is not the culprit. Did you check your reeds when you pulled the cylinders off? Are the compression reading the same (or very close) side to side? After putting gas in it, new plugs, and kicking it over, was there fuel on the plugs at all? The answers to these questions will steer you in the right direction. Good luck, and keep us posted. Quote
chappy Posted January 23, 2007 Author Report Posted January 23, 2007 ... it wouldn't get above 60psi while kicking and lost all the comprssion as soon as I quit kicking.... quick question ... does your comp tester have a bleed off button ? .. and does it have an o-ring to seal at the threads ? Most comp testers have a schrader valve installed in them so that the gauge needle holds the highest reading - even after you quit kicking.... the only way to bleed it off would be to push the button. Could it be that you had a leak in the seal of the tester or a bad/stuck valve in the tester ? Alright if the shrader valve is the little valve that looks like a valve core then yes the tester had one on the end the went into the head and one up top by the needle gauge and it had a rubber O ring seal at the end that went into the head.I got it from autozone.It was a new one and not one they had been renting out but it still could have been bad.I did check the reeds and they look fine no holes or wear marks but they did have little black specs of something on them that wipes off :shrug: .I did plan on getting the cylinders checked and bored if need be and have them ported while there off the bike and get some wiseco's also.I'm gonna have R&B racing do a dune port on them and I also just bought a LRD exhaust system off a fellow HQ'er so add some pod filters and it should run great.So I guess I will just assume the tester was bad or I had a leak somewhere and I'll clean the carbs and throw it all together.Thanks Quote
dajogejr Posted January 23, 2007 Report Posted January 23, 2007 Well, let's see...... first off, you always do a compression test with the throttle wide open, anything less produces erroneous results. Secondly, if the gauge needle drops, you have a problem with the gauge set - they are supposed to have a schrader valve in them to prevent them from leaking down (as already stated). Usually, the schrader is in the spark plug adapter end, I suggest you check that. Third, your results (80 psi w/throttle closed, 60 psi WOT) make no sense at all - you were allowing less air in with the throttle closed, therefore the compression should have been lower. Also, as previously stated, if she was running good, then quit, and everything looks ok (nothing damaged), chances are compression is not the culprit. Did you check your reeds when you pulled the cylinders off? Are the compression reading the same (or very close) side to side? After putting gas in it, new plugs, and kicking it over, was there fuel on the plugs at all? The answers to these questions will steer you in the right direction. Good luck, and keep us posted. Darned good advice. If you plan on having it ported, now might be the time ONLY because it is torn down this far. That being said...it's your money. Bob @ R&B racing will do you right. I rode a bike he did, and it was impressive and fun to ride! Quote
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