richybanshee Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 I say ... try 320 mains,again, with needle in the 4rth position and 30 pilot jets. Questions you should ask your self and answer: 1. How does it run at full throttle with the 320 mains? 2. How does it run at half throttle with 320 mains and needle in the 4rth clip position? 3. How does it run 1/8 to 1/4 throttle position with 30 pilots, air screws 1 1/2 turn from seated? Remember: You need to dial in, first, the main jets because they will take an effect on the other jets. Then dial in the needle and finally the pilots. Make the testing with new sparkplugs and do not base jetting on porceling color, look at the base of the ring. If you can not see, then cut the sparkplug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEVER SATISFIED Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 WITH HELP TO RICHY'S REPLY HERE'S A PIC OF HOW TO LOOK AT THE PLUG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHEEBANSAVAGE Posted March 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 I would guess at 1/8 throttle, the bike is lagging, but as soon as you get on the gas it powers right up instantly. I will try 320's, 30 pilots and needle at 4th position and check my plugs again!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEVER SATISFIED Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 (edited) I DONT THINK YOU NEED TO MOVE YOUR NEEDLE.. TRY ONE THING AT A TIME.. THE PILOT HAS TO DO WITH 1/8 THROTTLE.. IF IT FEELS LIKE IT LAGS BUT DOESNT BOG THEN CHANGE THE PILOT.. FOR THE NEEDLE=IF AT 1/4 TO 3/4 IT FEELS LAG THEN ITS LEAN..BOG IS RICH... 3/4 TO WOT IS THE MAIN.. SAME THING.. IF AT 3/4 OR WOT DOESNT FEEL LIKE ITS PULLING AND BOGS THEN MAIN IS TO BIG.. ANOTHER THING YOU CAN DO IS DO "THE CHOKE TRICK"....TO SEE IF TOO LEAN OR RICH WARM UP YOUR BIKE AND PULL THE CHOKE OUT TO THE FIRST CLIP.. IF THE BIKE RUNS BETTER THEN YOU ARE LEAN IF IT BOGS MORE THEN YOU CAN SAFELY LEAN OUT THE CARB.. THIS IS BECASUE THE CHOKE RICHENS THE CARB BY CUTTING OFF AIR SUPPLY GIVING MORE FUEL TO AIR RATIO. YOU CAN USE THAT METHOD TO GET A START THROUGH ALL PILOT -NEEDLE- AND MAIN JET AREAS Edited March 8, 2005 by NEVER SATISFIED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHEEBANSAVAGE Posted March 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 I DONT THINK YOU NEED TO MOVE YOUR NEEDLE.. TRY ONE THING AT A TIME.. THE PILOT HAS TO DO WITH 1/8 THROTTLE.. IF IT FEELS LIKE IT LAGS BUT DOESNT BOG THEN CHANGE THE PILOT.. FOR THE NEEDLE=IF AT 1/4 TO 3/4 IT FEELS LAG THEN ITS LEAN..BOG IS RICH... 3/4 TO WOT IS THE MAIN.. SAME THING.. IF AT 3/4 OR WOT DOESNT FEEL LIKE ITS PULLING AND BOGS THEN MAIN IS TO BIG.. ANOTHER THING YOU CAN DO IS DO "THE CHOKE TRICK"....TO SEE IF TOO LEAN OR RICH WARM UP YOUR BIKE AND PULL THE CHOKE OUT TO THE FIRST CLIP.. IF THE BIKE RUNS BETTER THEN YOU ARE LEAN IF IT BOGS MORE THEN YOU CAN SAFELY LEAN OUT THE CARB.. THIS IS BECASUE THE CHOKE RICHENS THE CARB BY CUTTING OFF AIR SUPPLY GIVING MORE FUEL TO AIR RATIO. YOU CAN USE THAT METHOD TO GET A START THROUGH ALL PILOT -NEEDLE- AND MAIN JET AREAS 335572[/snapback] Cool thats good info to know...thx... But my same problem is there at 3/4 to WOT...the plugs are a grey to very, very light brown... So by putting in the 30 pilot, thats not going to help to color of my plugs at the WOT range??? Also, When I switch from 5th to 6th, the bike takes a while to get to speed and almost seems like its bogging a little, but when I check the plugs they are grey/ very, very light brown like I mentioned above??? What do you think now?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEVER SATISFIED Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 (edited) are you sure its a bog... sounds like is hesitant till it gets enough fuel to hit the power band.do the choke trick.. see what happens... always better to go rich and then come back to the lean side Edited March 8, 2005 by NEVER SATISFIED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducman Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 We'll after reading all your jetting attempts I dont think you are running lean. With the mods you have and airbox lid cut (same as lid off) you should be good down to about 50 degrees with a 290 main. When I had FMF's, uni filter, lid off, I only ever used a 280 and 290 main, but temps in CA are fairly mild, not below 50 very much in the day. If you are not having trouble with shee starting or ideling then don't worry about the pilot, it doesn't effect much of the throttle range that you actually use when riding other than slow put put speed down a trail. 27.5 pilot will most likely work better but you should be able to get a # 25 to work if you turn in the air screws to say 1/2 to 1 turn from seated. As for the needle most people running a smaller pilot will get the best results with the 4th clip position on the needle. I liked the 3rd clip best with #30 pilots. A tan or light brown on your spark plug porcelin is jetted perfectly and it will take a fair amount of riding time to get a lot of color on the porcelin when jeted perfectly, say at least 1/2 hr of spirited riding. If it turns anything much more than meduim brown in 1/2 hr of riding then your too rich. The way you are describing that you are running decent but being down on power makes me think that you getting too rich. If you are way too rich it will bog on the needle or mains, but theres is a lot of jet sizes up untill it bogs you will loose a little power with each main size and clip position that you are past your optimum. It can make it seam like you are running good but just cant pull as tall of a gear WOT on the mains. With the needle too rich it is a little more slugish going into the band when rolling on the throttle or it can be "all or nothing" like a light switch going into the band if you are way rich on the needle. Anyway, I cant see you needing anything bigger than a #300 main down to 30 degrees F with your current airbox setup and mods. I think your original problem with a #280 main and the needle on the 5th clip may have been a couple sizes too small on the main (plugs looked lean) and one clip too much needle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEVER SATISFIED Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 DID YOU TELL US YOUR FUEL MIXTURE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richybanshee Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 Do the test with new sparkplugs. With so many changes does sparkplugs most have a lot carbon build in. Like many people have said, with the mods you mentioned main jet should be between 280-320 and needle 3rd-4rth notch. You can get away with the 25 pilot if temps are not so cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHEEBANSAVAGE Posted March 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 We'll after reading all your jetting attempts I dont think you are running lean. With the mods you have and airbox lid cut (same as lid off) you should be good down to about 50 degrees with a 290 main. When I had FMF's, uni filter, lid off, I only ever used a 280 and 290 main, but temps in CA are fairly mild, not below 50 very much in the day. If you are not having trouble with shee starting or ideling then don't worry about the pilot, it doesn't effect much of the throttle range that you actually use when riding other than slow put put speed down a trail. 27.5 pilot will most likely work better but you should be able to get a # 25 to work if you turn in the air screws to say 1/2 to 1 turn from seated. As for the needle most people running a smaller pilot will get the best results with the 4th clip position on the needle. I liked the 3rd clip best with #30 pilots. A tan or light brown on your spark plug porcelin is jetted perfectly and it will take a fair amount of riding time to get a lot of color on the porcelin when jeted perfectly, say at least 1/2 hr of spirited riding. If it turns anything much more than meduim brown in 1/2 hr of riding then your too rich. The way you are describing that you are running decent but being down on power makes me think that you getting too rich. If you are way too rich it will bog on the needle or mains, but theres is a lot of jet sizes up untill it bogs you will loose a little power with each main size and clip position that you are past your optimum. It can make it seam like you are running good but just cant pull as tall of a gear WOT on the mains. With the needle too rich it is a little more slugish going into the band when rolling on the throttle or it can be "all or nothing" like a light switch going into the band if you are way rich on the needle. Anyway, I cant see you needing anything bigger than a #300 main down to 30 degrees F with your current airbox setup and mods. I think your original problem with a #280 main and the needle on the 5th clip may have been a couple sizes too small on the main (plugs looked lean) and one clip too much needle. 335640[/snapback] Thanks for the reply... I have not been riding for a half hour before doing a plug check.. I would just get the bike to operating temp, blast off, go into 6th gear and when it felt like I hit top speed, I hit the kill switch and pullin the clutch. The max riding time would be 5-10 mins.. I guess i will have to try and ride a lil longer next time, then do the plug check again. So in your opinion, I am now probably gone too big in the mains... So here is what I think I should do and I do need some pointers here... 1> Go back to a 300 main, stock pilot, and 3rd needle clip position...install new plugs, run the piss out of it for 30 mins and then do a plug check. 2> If I get grey plugs, I go up to 320's and try again and also maybe adjust the needle to the 4th position.. Maybe my issue is here is that I have not been running the bike long enough for the color change to take effect. Let me know what you think!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHEEBANSAVAGE Posted March 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 If you are asking me about the mix ratio I use..it is 24:1... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEVER SATISFIED Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 (edited) If you are asking me about the mix ratio I use..it is 24:1... 335676[/snapback] . .. .. ANYONE ELSE THINK THIS IS KINDA RICH.. IF THIS IS THE CASE THEN 320'S AND 340'S ARE TO HIGH AND NEEDLE CLIP DOESNT NEED TO BE MOVED.. WHOA! IM RUNNIN 320'S WITH POD FILTERS (NO BOX), V FORCE 3, STOCK CARBS, 30 PILOT, CLIP ON 2ND FROM TOP AND 40:1 Edited March 8, 2005 by NEVER SATISFIED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducman Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 I would try #300 main and 4th clip. After that only change the mains or the needle, if you make changes to the main and the needle at the same time it is hard to determine which change made effects to performance other than WOT performance or color on a plug check, these are only affected by the main. As for plug color when doing a WOT plug check, once the porcelin takes on color it wont realy get any lighter in color. Look at the flat metal face (ring) on the bottom of the plug and the strap. Or read BenBB's jetting FAQ (click here) for the "Plug Chop" method which I prefer over reading plug color doing WOT plug checks. Also if you are using Yamalube at 24:1, thats pretty oil rich premix, I would go to 32:1 or 36:1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEVER SATISFIED Posted March 8, 2005 Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 I would try #300 main and 4th clip. After that only change the mains or the needle, 335695[/snapback] THINK THATS THE ONLY SETUP COMBO HE HASNT TRIED YET... GO FOR IT MAN... BEEN EVERYWHERE ELSE!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHEEBANSAVAGE Posted March 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2005 I will try that today and post back later.. Thx again for your help.!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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