SLORYDER Posted May 6, 2010 Report Share Posted May 6, 2010 Depends on your budget brother. If you can aford it go powervalve cheetah. You will never want another bike after experiencing one. Mine was a 10 mill with only trinity inframes and 35 carbs and it was a joy to ride. No riding the clutch or on/foo powerband which is very tiring. Unless you drag 90+ percent of the time go powervalve motor. If the funds will allow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWR Posted May 6, 2010 Report Share Posted May 6, 2010 lockup with no override here also-undercover with stock springs.i also like stock cylinders unless full drag bike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banshee332 Posted May 6, 2010 Report Share Posted May 6, 2010 Jim from passion racing can build a hell of a mean trail bike motor. His hot duner port will put you in the mid 80's usable horse power every where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLORYDER Posted May 6, 2010 Report Share Posted May 6, 2010 (edited) Jim from passion racing can build a hell of a mean trail bike motor. His hot duner port will put you in the mid 80's usable horse power every where. I like jim and all but............ Mid 80's drag ported 4mil on race gas. Definately not power everywhere Edited May 6, 2010 by SLORYDER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PassionRE Posted May 6, 2010 Report Share Posted May 6, 2010 I like jim and all but............ Mid 80's drag ported 4mil on race gas. Definately not power everywhere What he said ^ Only 80hp if you want power everywhere...or less if you want. Better pick a strategy and go with it. A good trail motor is going to suck as a fast hillshooter bike. On the other hand, HP is so addictive that you better plan on getting a little more than a trail motor or you'll be spending more $$$$$$ over the long run......Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamRealtreeHD Posted May 7, 2010 Report Share Posted May 7, 2010 (edited) Alright, I've been debating for a while. I want to either set up a 421 cub or a 4 mil w/ ported stock cylinders. I can't decide which I want. I can't do it right away because I just don't have the funds to do it right now. I do all kinds of riding; trails, duning (kinda), and hillclimbing are the top three. I'm kind of steering more towards a 4 mil stocker set-up... My question's are.... 1. If I decide to do a 4 mil with a port job (dune/hillshoot) what all would I need to prepare to send in....other than the cylinders? (I'm thinking HJR FYI) 2. I also plan on ordering a 4 mil crank (hotrod), lock-up clutch and cover, direct drive, pipes (shearers possibly), cool head, and timing plate. Is there anything else that i'm leaving out? 3. with a 4 mil will i need different carbs (currently running stockers)? sorry for all the questions, just want to get some knowledge about it before I go toying around and eff'n things up. If I left anything out or want to buy something that sounds ridiculous....let me know!!! Kyle, You'll only need to send in your cylinders to Kevin at HJR for the ported 4mil stocker. If you decide to go with the duneable tranny like mine, you can take yours out ('ll have the cases split anyways for the crank installation) and send it to him for 100 core charge off your new tranny. I highly recommend it, seriously. You will need intakes and the pancake bearing on top of the list I already gave you. Boss Racing with the built in cross over tube is top notch for intakes. Get the pancake bearing from Kevin with all your parts. Me or Matt can help you put the motor together/take it apart if your Dad doesn't want to get that dirty with it. For you needs, stay away from Shearer pipes. They are top end only. Get CPI if you want top end with a splash of mid. Or Trinity's... or Toomey T5. Alot of guys like CPI... You will need new domes for the 4 mil build, if you go with the cub as well. Kevin will square you away. Just let him know what you want to do with it, and what gas you want to run. I wanted good compression, but didn't want to run straight race fuel. He set me up so I can mix 50/50 race and pump. 33-35mm Keihin PWK's will cover either the cub or the 4 mil stocker. For what you are doing, go with the 4 mil stocker... You know I drove a few times from your house to the moon... and let me tell you, it's not fun. I have the cub of course... while you CAN trail ride them, they aren't the best setup for it. I am primarily a hillshooter. I trail rode from your house to the moon to climb hills. That 10-15 minute trail ride kicked my ass. I was in the trees, in the bushes, off the path, in a bears den, in a racoons nest... everywhere but the path lol. They are a handful on tight trails. Believe me... however, with me, I like that lightswitch stuff. The powerband coming out of nowhere... a banshee wouldn't be a banshee without it. I went cub because of it. On that same hand, though, I don't trail ride. I killed 2 birds with 1 stone. Win/Win for me. A ported stocker with a 4mil is the perfect setup for trails and hillclimbing the way you want to do both... you won't be an all out hillclimber, and want to trail ride. Go 4 mil stocker... I on the other hand, shoot hills. So I went cub. And for the times I trail ride, to and from the hills, or from hill to hill, I bite the bullet and take a lickin' Plus, you'll save money as well. You're on you're stock bore I believe... he will bore you .020" over, will send you new pistons back, the hot rods crank, your cylinders ported and matched to your pistons, crank and your riding style, etc. Get the 33 or 35mm PWK's and call it a day. You will need a dual pingel fuel valve... I'd go atlest +2 but +4 on the swinger would be optimal. Perfect for climbing, will do just fine on the trails. He will send the base gasket back, along with wrist pin bearings, clips, etc. for pistons. If you get a new clutch and clutch cover/overide, get a new clutch gasket and seal kit. VF3 reeds... no ther way to go. And pod filters... no air box stuff. You'll be advancing your timing as well so plan for a timing plate. I run mine at +5.5. As others have said, though, you need to decide what you want to do with this bike PRIMARILY/MOST OF THE TIME. Trail ride? Hillclimb with Gertrude? I got used to the cub, on trails... but it kicked my ass, and will kick my ass, every time. I'd go 4 mil stocker with Kevins Hot hillshoot port. A set of stock cylinders ported with a 4 mil pumping underneath them is a nasty trail machine capable of climbing the biggest of all coal hills we know as coal crackers. Go 4 mil dune or 4 mil hot hillshooter 4 mil from Kevin. FAST or Jim at Passion would be my other choices, or Brandon at Wildcard Racing. Kevin is Fast... and answers questions. He has my business for the rest of my life... I've never dealt with a more pleasant businessman than him that cares as much as you do about your build. Edited May 7, 2010 by TeamRealtreeHD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinned247 Posted May 7, 2010 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2010 I'll be giving the boys at FAST a call sometime in the next couple of days to get a grasp of prices and so forth. I really want to get this done. The thing that sucks is that I will be without the banshee till I get it finished (once i decide to tear her down). I guess I'll have to ride the sportsman while the shee's out (by the way, i climbed the moon with it at like 2 mph a few weeks ago). Oh and Trey, thanks for the badass write up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagunCajun Posted May 7, 2010 Report Share Posted May 7, 2010 The only reason I went with stock cyliders is because I didn't want the power delivery of a drag port. As for porting, depends who's you swing from. A lot of good builders out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbcmudtruck Posted May 7, 2010 Report Share Posted May 7, 2010 Huh, you guys running a lockout w/out a cut trans can shift ok? I asked around before I got a lockout and was told that you needed both. Anyway, a FAST 4mil dune port with all the nessesary bolt ons will run its balls off. My fast 4mil had tons of torque and screamed on the topend. I would say its truly the best bang for the buck for all around riding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted May 7, 2010 Report Share Posted May 7, 2010 You can get your stock tranny modded to shift 100 times better than stock, still keep all 6 gears. You will NOT be able to shift under full power without the clutch. I agree 100% on a ported set of stock jugs. Get a cool head with cut domes or the 4 mil. If you tell the builder not to get too silly, say 75HP or so or under, a good quality clutch kit should be ok. If you're going to be abusing and slipping the hell out of the clutch, a lockout is a good idea. First, you need to get a budget. Then...you need to add 25% to that budget, literally...because shit comes up. And I say CPI or Trinity pipes with PWK35s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLORYDER Posted May 7, 2010 Report Share Posted May 7, 2010 And I say CPI or Trinity pipes with PWK35s. But your boy schnopski says Trinity pipes suck... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted May 7, 2010 Report Share Posted May 7, 2010 His opinion and he's certainly entitled to it... Show me one product out there that everyone says is the best. It'll never happen... For duner/trail motors, I'd choose CPI, Trinity or T5s, especially with an aggressive port job. To each is own...and at the end of the day, the person doing the motor work should make the call based on his conversation with the customer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLORYDER Posted May 7, 2010 Report Share Posted May 7, 2010 Show me one product out there that everyone says is the best. It'll never happen... Yeah I called Trinity and asked them what port durations worked best with that pipe he basically said it would respond well to any porting. He also said it would produce good power past 10,500 rpm. Kind of vague Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagunCajun Posted May 8, 2010 Report Share Posted May 8, 2010 First, you need to get a budget. Then...you need to add 25% A budget......i knew i forgot something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WINDYCITYJOHN400 Posted May 13, 2010 Report Share Posted May 13, 2010 Yeah I called Trinity and asked them what port durations worked best with that pipe he basically said it would respond well to any porting. He also said it would produce good power past 10,500 rpm. Kind of vague How would Trinity know if their pipes respond well over 10,500? Their motors don't run that high! I've owned 2 Trinity motors. (A 400 powervalved Cheetah and a 472 powervalved cheetah) Both had Trinity pipes and both motors sucked! I finaly put new domes in the 472, (cause Trintiy doesn't know jack about dome design) and sold the Trinity pipes to some poor guy who still has stockers on a stock motor (couldn't hurt him as bad as they were hurting me) and got a set of CPI's. Now all's right in the world. But if you gave me a set of Trinity pipes right now....they'd be on Ebay tomorrow! I like the T-5's or the FMF Fatty's for a Trinity replacement pipe for everything but the dunes. The dunes belong to CPI and Shearer. I like their response... "They'll work well with any porting"....this from the company that sells spark plug locks to stop plugs from backing out from detonation. Yeah I guess that one way to solve that problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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