Buttermilk421

We're running a 4-3 valving and 175lb primary spring and a 45lb secondary spring. Valved and sprung like this they work OK for our Banshee on tracks that have some hookup. If the track goes dry/slick, which they always seem to do for us, then I wish I could change the valving on the rebound to enhance traction coming out of the corners and load up the left rear as well coming out. This same shock is worthless on our 250R with the same valving. Stock 250R shocks work better on the 250R. While I could always have the AFCO's revalved to work for the 250R, they wouldn't be correct for the Banshee, because of the different weights of the quads, and the power differences of the two machines. My next front shocks for TT/Flattrack will be rebound adjustable which will allow a much greater chance of getting them setup correctly for different tracks, as well as changing track conditions during the night on the same track.

IF you don't mind my asking, what valving did you go with and what are the spring rates? You running them on a 450R?

I'm aware that Lonnie doesn't deal with Afco shocks. My point was that there are better choices for flattrack shocks than Afco shocks. As good as the Afco's are, the lack of adjustable rebound hurts them.

Ricky Stator offers a reasonably priced adjustable timing plate. I've got one on one of my Banshees. Works great. The other Banshee has a Dyna FS programmable. I like that one too, be cause of it's flexability. As mentioned, a Cool Head with some domes would be a good way to increase performance also. Just a matter of selecting domes for the type of gas you want to run. But since you already have a shaved head, the gains might be minimal, depending on what domes you select, and how much the head has been shaved.

When I did the lightened flywheel and the VF reeds I was running OEM cylinders, not the Cub. The timing advance is indeed noticable. I couldn't tell a difference with the flywheel, except for the bog out of the hole as noted in my previous post. I know of others who have gone back to a stock flywheel for the same reason. One of which is running a 10 mm Cheetah drag bike who did have a PVL on it. But is going back to a stock ignition with a Dyna and a stock flywheel to get rid of the bog out of the hole. I've also broken two shaved flywheels (neither was on the Cub) on my old motor setup. I'm not the only one who has busted lightened/shaved flywheels either. My personal opinion, and it's just that, MY personal opinion, there are other better mods to do than a shaved flywheel. A shaved flywheel does not net you any HP gains. The only benefit is slightly quicker revving, slightly better throttle response. You can only take so much off the stock flywheel anyway.

I got my Afco shocks from Car and Fleet in Tulsa, OK. Mike Stewart treated me well. I think I paid a little over $500 for mine, plus I had the valving setup where I wanted, and the spring rate also. I like the Afco shocks, but since they don't have rebound adjustability, I'd pick different ones If I had it to do over again. Give Lonnie Eubanks a call @ Sandtrax (www.sandtrax.com) and he'll hook you up. He's a flattracker, so he's got some good experience about what works and what doesn't.

VForce all the way. I've done both and the lightened flywheel was not even noticable on my machine, except during drag racing, it had a tendency to bog out of the hole with a lightened flywheel. I can't tell a difference in acceleration with a stock flywheel. VForce reeds gave a noticeable improvement in the throttle response and peak power, plus widened the power spread on my motor.

It was dyno'd in 5th. Re-read the chart. The peak numbers are below the hp/tq lines. Peak HP was 90.86 and peak TQ was 49.34. The other numbers are relative to 9700 RPM, not PEAK. It was also running rich on the AFR (12.7), which re-jetting to ~13.5 on the AFR would pick up the numbers a bit, probably at least 3-4 HP and ~2 ft-lbs TQ, maybe even more (previous dyno sessions on a different motor netted 8 HP with jetting alone with similar AFR numbers.....) You can hold your mouse/cursor over the chart for a moment and then click on the enlarge button to view the chart full size for easier reading.

I'm running +2 a-arms on one of my Banshee's with a stock width axle. It handles better than my other Banshee. Sometime soon, I hope to replace the axle with a 2+2 version. Don't have any pics.

They are 35 PWK Air Stryker carbs (both). Keihin makes both a PWK and a PWK Air Stryker version. I have the PWK A/S version. Who's dyno did you dyno on? With some Shearer pipes, you'll probably be in the 90'ish range. I think I can be in the mid 90's easily just by dropping two sizes on the main jet. 3 years ago, on another motor setup that was close to the same A/F ratio as my cub is currently, I picked up 8 HP just by jetting alone. I would really like to add some 38 PWK A/S carbs or even some 39 PWK's along with some different pipes. I think I could come very close to the 100 HP mark on gas. I've got some 35 PWK A/S carbs set up to run alcohol also (would like to have some bigger ones.....) The Shearer pipes are probably worth about 3 HP or so over the CPI's, if your talking inframe versions. There are some out frame pipes that may even be about 6-7 HP better or so. My quad gets flattracked about as often as it gets drag raced (probably more so), so I really want to stay with the inframes...

I've got the V2's on one bike and stock ported cages with carbon fiber reeds set up with high tension on another Banshee. VForce gives more power and better throttle response, plus a broader power spread. It's all about how much money do you want to spend for the amount of HP your after. My race quad gets the $$$ for the HP, while the play quad gets what 'works' (value vs. hp gained).

I'm running CPI inframe (small bore) pipes and 35 PWK A/S carbs.

What Cub are you going with? Stock stroke?

http://www.planetsand.com/ubbthreads/showf...&page=0&fpart=2 Link has my dyno chart attached to it. Thought some of you might be interested in it. I've also attached it here incase some of you aren't PS members. Regards, Buttermilk

The EEK has a richer taper. for somd good info go to sudco.com and read up on how the needle works.

You can run automobile oil in your Banshee. You just have to select the correct type. We've run Mobile 1 synthetic in my son's 250R for a couple of years. That's what the previous owner used in it for 2 years before we bought it. Now, we run Mobil 1 Truck and SUV oil in the crankcase. Works good. As long as you avoid the auto oils that have that symbol on the front of the bottle, you shouldn't have any problems. Most oils that are 5-30 or 10-30 have this symbol on them. Symbol has something to do with being rated for gasoline engines and is usually a good indicator the oil has friction modifiers in it (bad for clutches). I also use BelRay Gear Saver 80w oil in one Banshee. Works real well. It's made for two stroke motors. The other Banshee gets BelRay as well, but has seen on a few occasions Castrol 10w-40, Valvoline 20w-50, when I needed to change the oil, but didn't have and couldn't get the BelRay gear saver oil. I may be changing the Banshees over to the Mobil 1 Truck and SUV oil in the near future. These quads are not just recreational quads. They get raced in Flattrack/TT and Cross Country venues. Regards.

You guys have overlooked one key part of his "ride". It has a 10mm crank in it. That will increase the UCCR over the "chart" that lists expected compression for a given dome cc. Those charts are based on stock ported oem jugs, not ported ones, and stock stroke cranks. And, after all that, they are still just "charts". They ain't always accurate for a given motor. In my opinion, you probably would be taking a huge risk in attempting to run 100 octane with your setup. You probably are on the edge of being able to run 112. I once tried to run 101 octane in my 4mm stock cylindered motor with 210 psi compression and blew the motor because of detonation. Put it all back together exactly as it was, except I ran 111 octane this time around. Lasted for over two years, before I built a bigger motor.

Yeah, being lean will cause that hole in the piston thing. My motor setup, at the time, when I burnt the plug tips off, was a 4 mill on ported OEM cylinders. I now run a 4 mill Cub with 165 psi compression, but still run my timing anywhere from +5.5-9.5 degrees advance with a programmable Dyna cdi. I've also dropped my mains to 0.113"-.0116" depending on conditions. I know of some that have ran mains quite a bit higher than mine (upper 0.120's)

You probably were just a bit on the lean side. I run .118" main jets, plus power jets on my motor with alcohol. I've run as much as 210 psi (18:1 UCCR on my setup...), with 7.5-9.5 degrees timing advance. Any time you burn the tips off the plug, you're too lean. Regardless of the plug. Get them much leaner, then you have a hole in the piston....

If the plug tip burns off of a spark plug, it usually means you're too lean, if you are talking alcohol, and that's not good. I've burnt them off of plugs BR9ES plugs too. Fine wire plugs take less energy to spark, so more of the available energy goes to igniting the fuel.

I'm running 148 mains, with BEL needles on my 421 Cub with CPI s.b. inframes. Been almost a year now, with no problems.

I run an NGK Iridium Xtreme plug in my Banshee Cub on alcohol and on gas. I believe it's the BR9EIX plug if memory serves me correctly. For oil in alcohol, I run Castor 927 with good results. I've also used Klotz Super Techniplate, but I like the Castor 927 better for alcohol.

On my 421 Cub with 35 pwk a/s carbs, I'm running 35 pilots, BGL needle on leanest clip postion, 148 mains. This is with CPI inframe pipes and clamp on filters.