fox_forma Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 (edited) Ok I just got done putting my clutch back together and lined everything up like it should be and adjusted correctly. I have done clutches on shees a few times so I'm pretty sure its not my clutch. It seems to REV fine but when I go it just has nothing to it, no powerband or anything, kinda just pokes along and tries to rev out. It is bored .60over, ported heads and I have a 2into1 trinity carb. I was thinking it could be carb related but I doubt it since I cleaned it out a few times. Jetting in there now is a 48 pilot, 155 main, just had a 185 main in so went lower to see if any better response and nothing. Also clip is on 3rd notch, air screw 1.5 turns out mixed at 32:1 with mobile 2t racing synthetic. Since I never rode this ATV before I bought it I dont know if it was acting like this or not, the clutch needed to be assembled when I bought it. I noticed all the TORS and Pbrake stuff is disconnected and there are a lot of empty plugs throughout the wiring harness. Could this be the problem maybe? I'm not sure what needs to be connected or disconnect. Oh and compression is fine, it has to be something stupid I would imagine. For some reason it also has a fuel filter inline with the fuel hose, I never heard of them with 2 strokes so could that have anything to do with it as well? I have been searching around for a while on here but most of the same symptoms from other epople were clutch related and I'm pretty sure thats not my problem. Hope someone can help!! Edited October 18, 2006 by fox_forma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_forma Posted October 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Ok I just pulled all the fenders and the tank and started going over all the wires. I came across a bare wire that looks to be spliced off of an orange one within the harness. Now since the wire is black and is basically just hanging there, should I assume this need to be grounded to complete the circuit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 This here should answer all your questions... Download the Banshee Service Manual... http://cracker19.badongo.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bansh-eman Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Ok I just pulled all the fenders and the tank and started going over all the wires. I came across a bare wire that looks to be spliced off of an orange one within the harness. Now since the wire is black and is basically just hanging there, should I assume this need to be grounded to complete the circuit? i wouldnt assume anything with electrical... if its a hot wire and you try to ground it uout it could casue a short and jack all your componeant... get a clymers and it should show you all the electrical layout of your bike... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_forma Posted October 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Yeah I have the downloaded version of the manual but its hard to really read and understand. It just wont let me get into the higher RPM's, I figured jetting but I have been all over the borad with it and nothing seems to get better or worse, just stays the same. I also have good spark. I will try jetting a little more just to see but something is off somewhere. It starts first kick, idles fine but just doesnt go really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 You're lean with that small a main in a 1 into 2 setup. Go back to the 188 main. And, do a leakdown test. Once you warm it up, and let it idle...does the idle raise slightly on it's own, as if by magic? Easy start, good idling but no top end is typical of an air leak, once spark and jetting are ruled out. Going from a 185 to a 155 is a HUGE jump...and you would notice a difference in top end revs. I'd start it up, warm it up easy, and spray carb cleaner all around the intakes...I'd bet you've got an air leak there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_forma Posted October 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Yeah i knew dropping to the 155 main was huge but I just wanted to see, there was orinally a 145 in there i think. I put the 185 before I put it back together since I knew I should of been higher with the 2into1. When i did drop down the main size it seemed to REV better when just sitting there, almost seemed fat with the 185. Looks like I may be pulled the head just to see whats up. Kinda hoping to avoid that though. As for the idle it will idle fine, no jumps in the RPM range or anything. I will try the carb cleaner trick again but I tried that before and it didnt do anything. The previous owner said it was fine when I asked him so something is just outta whack somewhere. Isnt there also a way to do it through the left side case as well to check? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted October 19, 2006 Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 When my new cub motor had a BAD air leak on the bottom left side of the cylinder, it would start fine, idle fine, and free rev in nuetral fine. The second I dumped it in gear...done. flat on it's face. I had stock carbs and T5 pipes at the time. Went from a 380 main jet down to a 200. Every jet inbetween, two different needles, different clip settings, you name it. Didn't make a bit of difference. I basically wasted a WHOLE weekend trip at the dunes cause I was too damn lazy to do a leak down test. If the left side (flywheel side) crank seal is bad, yes...you can start the bike and spray behind the flywheel to see if the RPMs dip down too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_forma Posted October 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 When my new cub motor had a BAD air leak on the bottom left side of the cylinder, it would start fine, idle fine, and free rev in nuetral fine. The second I dumped it in gear...done. flat on it's face. I had stock carbs and T5 pipes at the time. Went from a 380 main jet down to a 200. Every jet inbetween, two different needles, different clip settings, you name it. Didn't make a bit of difference. I basically wasted a WHOLE weekend trip at the dunes cause I was too damn lazy to do a leak down test. If the left side (flywheel side) crank seal is bad, yes...you can start the bike and spray behind the flywheel to see if the RPMs dip down too... When you say the left side of the cylinder are you referring to the left crank seal or just the cylinder wasnt sealed up correctly? The previous owner said he just replaced all the top end gaskets so it looks like I will be pulling it apart to investigate, maybe something is wrong with the install. It also looks like a lot of the vent lines were ran wrong as well. I just printed out all the diagrams for the vents lines and for the wiring diagram so I can see what that one wire actually goes to. What was your fix on your situation? Left side crank seal replacement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted October 19, 2006 Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 Machine the top deck (was uneven in the middle) and machine the bottom of the cylinder, using a thicker base gasket to keep the squish angle and port timing correct. That fixed it the first time. Second time was totally my fault...trail rode, lost a clamp on K&N and sucked water in the engine, popping a crank seal.... both times, I was able to run the engine, start it fine...idle fine...etc. But, gave her the spray down...and it died out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_forma Posted October 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 I have a feeling this is prob my problem. With the spray test method can anything else be used besides carb cleaner, all the carb cleaners I have spray out a strong stream very rapidly and it seems that would get all over everything and then some. Oh yeah that link you posted to the manual wont allow me to fully download it, i can only get 2mb then it says completed for some reason. I have a manual saved on my comp already but wanted to see if that had any more to it that what i got Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_forma Posted October 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 Well I did the propane method and the bike fluctuated a lot when idling so hopefully it is a gasket sealing problem. After I let the bike idle I pulled the plugs and streams off smoke were coming out the holes, more on the left than right so this would kinda make me believe that coolant is possibly getting past somewhere? Correct? I also propaned the left side area behind the flywheel and nothing changed, so I would hope its not the crank seal. I pulled the pipes as well and noticed they are pretty oiled up as well but that could just be about anything. I didnt get to do a leakdown test because I would rather do the gaskets first and see if that resolves my problem. Also I'm going to have to look at the pistons and everything since the bike was jetted lean before, hopefully nothing fot warped or anything. A little curious but what is the best way to drain the coolant? Does it all have to be fully drained to pull the jugs or what, I noticed the coolant drain plugs also sit a little high in the cylinders so I just want to make sure it will all come out also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_forma Posted October 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 Well i got the whole top end apart and noticed a few things that I didnt like. One was all the surfaces were pretty shitty and had a lot of dirt between them and the gaskets, so this could possibly be the sealing problem. The pistons had even use of carbon build up, seemed to burn nice and even so thats good. I noticed on my right side jug, the bolts that stick out, one of them has the nut seized on it so when I went to loosen the head the whole nut and post came out with it. Is there replacements for these by chance. Also I noticed some of the posts arent in as far as other but they seem to be in all the way, should they all be the same height sticking out of the jugs for each side? There was also a lot of coolant in the bottom end which I got most of it out with my mighty VAC but there still seems to be a little in there. I dont have access to my compressor to blow the rest out so any other tricks to it. The top head gasket was also a metal type gasket, should I use a gasket sealant on there to make sure it seals up nice as well. I know its a lot of questions but want to get it right the first time. The jugs looked great with no marking or anything as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted October 19, 2006 Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 Hmm... here we go. You can get replacement studs at any yamie dealer, or a member here. DO NOT go to a hardware store and get studs. I know this for a fact. I went to a local metric store, got hardened studs that were cool looking and had an allen head in them...and I broke 3 of them. Yes, three of them on my motor. Get the OEM parts. The two studs in front, over the exhaust, will be longer. When you put the new stud in, get a few threads coated in high temp RTV, and thread it in, hand tight only. You do NOT need to crank that stud down or loctite it, the head nut will tighten down fine. They don't all have to neccessarily be the same height, as long as they hold 20 to 22 ft. lbs. of torque, you're fine. You MUST get that coolant out of the lower half. If you can't suck it out or blow it out, drain the tranny oil, remove the motor and flip it over. Or...drain the tranny oil and flip the bike upside down or on it's side. You do NOT want coolant, water or gear oil in the crankcase...trust me on that one. You might be able to stuff a shop rag down there to soak it up...just do what's best/easiest for you and make sure you get it all out!! As long as the head and deck surfaces are clean (I use a real fine scotchbrite pad to clean it all off) and brake cleaner to get it clean, you shouldn't need any kind of gasket sealer on a stock/OEM head gasket. Make sure you clean those cylinders with soap and water till they're sparkling when you put 'em back on, and use a thin coat of two stroke oil on them to ease the rings/pistons back into the jugs. Sorry for the novel, but you asked...lol --daj... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fox_forma Posted October 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 Ok sounds good, I know I have flipped my RM over to get water out of the bottom end when I sunk in stream crossing before but a quad would just be a bigger PITA to do it that way. Hopefully I can get it all out or hopefully come across an air compressor. Thanks for clearing that up on the head bolts and not to use the hardware store kind, thats kinda what I was thinking since you can get the ones that have the allen head in the top of them. How did you break them anyhow? I guess we'll see what happens, should be fun. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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