Floats sticking?

[mall0y]

I just re-jetted because I put pipes on my banshee and I finnaly got everything back together. I put new throttle cables on and everything. So today when I went to start it up for the first time it started but it seemed like the throttle was sticking a little bit. It would rev up like normal but it would take 3-4 seconds longer than usual to return to idle. So I shut it off because I figgured my cable was sticking and needed to be lubed up. Then I noticed all this gas pouring out of the overflow on my right carb. I figgured maybe the the floats were sticking and this is what was causing the first problem I descirbed. So, I just wanted to see what you guys think my problem is. I didnt want to tear the carbs apart if I didnt need to, so I thougth I'd ask here first. Thanks

[Toomey Banshee]

Did you clean your carbs when you had them off? I would just tap the carbs lightly with a hammer, that outta unstick any glop that may have accumulated in there.

[mall0y]

Did you clean your carbs when you had them off?

Edited August 26, 2005 by mall0y

[2003LimitedBanshee]

It sounds like you may have a lean condition. Many times if the bike is lean it will take longer for the idle to return to normal. I suppose it is possible that the problems are connected, but I would also check for an air leak, which would cause the bike to lean out. You definitely want to address the fuel overflow, as you know, but it may or may not be the cause of the idle problem. Address the fuel, and if it fixes it great, otherwise you are lean for one reason or another.

[mall0y]

It sounds like you may have a lean condition.  Many times if the bike is lean it will take longer for the idle to return to normal.  I suppose it is possible that the problems are connected, but I would also check for an air leak, which would cause the bike to lean out.  You definitely want to address the fuel overflow, as you know, but it may or may not be the cause of the idle problem.  Address the fuel, and if it fixes it great, otherwise you are lean for one reason or another.

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Alright, well heres the story. I just bought Bills pipes and I called them up and asked for jetting reccomendations. They said either 280 or 290 main and a 32.5 pilot. Now, when I went to get these jets from a shop they said for around here a main jet that big (280-290) is rediculously rich. So I figgured the guy at the shop would know a little more about what I needed because of the altitue and temperature and stuff like that. I ended up getting 240 mains and a stock 25 pilot. So thats where I sit now. I checked for leaks there arent any. So I tried running it with the choke on and it runs perfect. So, my question is since I have to use the choke how many sizes do you reccomend I jump up on the main jets? Should I put the 280 in there and the 32.5 pilot? I just want to get in the right ballpark. Ohh, and I didnt fix the fuel problem, Its probably just a float sticking, I'll get to that when I put the different jets in. Thanks guys!

[Hilarious]

I'd listen to the people's here in this forum than those dumbasses at the stealerships or whereever. They told me the same crap line. I asked em for some main jets 280 on up to 300 and they looked at me like i was crazy and wanted to know why I thought I needed jets that big. Right now I've got some 320 mains in with my fmf fatties and I think it may be a little lean. Shows how much they know at the shop. Id suggest getting some mains 280 on up to 300 and start rich. Bump your carbs with a screw driver handle to solve the over flow problem. usually works for me. Then go from there. I had 240 mains in my bike when I just had a K&N air filter and everything else stock. Hope this helps ya.

[mall0y]

I'd listen to the people's here in this forum than those dumbasses at the stealerships or whereever. They told me the same crap line. I asked em for some main jets 280 on up to 300 and they looked at me like i was crazy and wanted to know why I thought I needed jets that big. Right now I've got some 320 mains in with my fmf fatties and I think it may be a little lean. Shows how much they know at the shop. Id suggest getting some mains 280 on up to 300 and start rich. Bump your carbs with a screw driver handle to solve the over flow problem. usually works for me. Then go from there. I had 240 mains in my bike when I just had a K&N air filter and everything else stock. Hope this helps ya. 

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Alright, sounds good. i'll go put the 280 mains and the 32.5 pilots in there and see where that puts me. As for the floats ii'll try that again and see if it helps. Thanks alot guys!

[mall0y]

Alright, I just put the 280 mains and the 32.5 pilots in. I rode it wide open (only to 4th gear) and pulled the plugs to see how it was running. Everything seemed alright except for the fact that i thougth it was running kinda hot. The plugs were both brownish black so I'm guessing the jetting is almost right. Here are pictures of the plugs. (sorry the quality isn't that good I couldn't get the camera to focus on them too good.)

 

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid1...39/f2a3ede1.jpg

Edited August 26, 2005 by mall0y

[Toomey Banshee]

Keep going up on the mains till it bogs at WOT (wide open throttle) then come down a size. For example if its good with 280's, 290's and bogs at WOT with 300's then go back down to the 290's.

[mall0y]

Keep going up on the mains till it bogs at WOT (wide open throttle) then come down a size.  For example if its good with 280's, 290's and bogs at WOT with 300's then go back down to the 290's.

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Well it actually runs a pretty rich with the 280's in there. I had to take the airbox lid off in order to make it run perfect. Anyway, my right carb is still leaking gas. I took the carb off and cleaned it with carb cleaner and put it back on. It stopped leaking untill I started the quad and let it idle. Do you still think my floats are sticking? Could it be another problem? Any suggestions to solve it? I'm new to carbs and jetting so you'll have to bear with me, I'm still learning lol. Thanks guys!

[midnite]

You need to replace the needle valve assemblies. The floats "hook" into these needle valves. The cheapest way to do this is buy 2 moose carb rebuild kits for banshee, and use just the needle valves.

[mall0y]

You need to replace the needle valve assemblies. The floats "hook" into these needle valves. The cheapest way to do this is buy 2 moose carb rebuild kits for banshee, and use just the needle valves.

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alright.... how hard is it to change one of these valves lol

Edited August 27, 2005 by mall0y

[midnite]

You need to take off your float bowl. You may have to take the float off [pull the pin that holds the float to the carb] I don't remember, and don't have one infront of me. Next, there is a phillips head screw holding a small "c" shaped piece of steel {don't know the name of it} which holds the needle valve in place. With the "hold down" removed the valve easily slides out. Put the new one in and put it back together.It's pretty simple to do your self. No more drips after that.

[2003LimitedBanshee]

I agree... it sounds like the needle valve may not be fully seating, this is what actually opens and shuts to allow fuel into the float bowl of the carb. They are super sensitive to little (tiny) pieces of debris. Even if you have cleaned the majority of the carb really well, you may still have some junk under the seat of the valve, which would cause fuel to continue to flow to the carb float bowl. If you disassemble the carb, as was described earlier and thoroughly clean the needle valve area, I would be surprised if you didn't fix the problem. The needle valves aren't generally a part I would expect to see wear out, and need to be replaced. Keep in mind we are talking about a needle valve attached to the float mechanism, not your needle adjustment that attaches to the slide and moves within the main jet of the carb, but the needle in the float bowl.

 

On jetting, 240 sounds way lean, unless you are at some significant altitude. 280 is probably a good place to start. What is your elevation and air temp? Also the 32.5 pilot sounds way big. You can see the small list of mods I've done in my signature, and I'm still on the stock 25 pilot. It runs fine at my house (2000' elevation) and I may or may not go up to a 27.5 pilot for running at sea level. As far as jetting goes, there is an easy way to check it out, although not as precise, still pretty good. As mentioned by others, I always like to check at WOT in 6th gear, because it provides the heaviest load. Simply, if it bogs at WOT throttle on the top end, you are too rich, go down a size... If it is still pulling hard all the way through, try going up on the main and see what you get. Even with little knowledge, checking the plugs while doing this can help. If it is pulling all the way through (you need to go up...) if you look at the plugs and they are really ghosty maybe jump a few sizes instead of one at a time. Sorry for the post length hope this helps!

[mall0y]

I agree... it sounds like the needle valve may not be fully seating, this is what actually opens and shuts to allow fuel into the float bowl of the carb.  They are super sensitive to little (tiny) pieces of debris.  Even if you have cleaned the majority of the carb really well, you may still have some junk under the seat of the valve, which would cause fuel to continue to flow to the carb float bowl.  If you disassemble the carb, as was described earlier and thoroughly clean the needle valve area, I would be surprised if you didn't fix the problem.  The needle valves aren't generally a part I would expect to see wear out, and need to be replaced.  Keep in mind we are talking about a needle valve attached to the float mechanism, not your needle adjustment that attaches to the slide and moves within the main jet of the carb, but the needle in the float bowl. 

 

On jetting, 240 sounds way lean, unless you are at some significant altitude.  280 is probably a good place to start.  What is your elevation and air temp?  Also the 32.5 pilot sounds way big.  You can see the small list of mods I've done in my signature, and I'm still on the stock 25 pilot.  It runs fine at my house (2000' elevation) and I may or may not go up to a 27.5 pilot for running at sea level.  As far as jetting goes, there is an easy way to check it out, although not as precise, still pretty good.  As mentioned by others, I always like to check at WOT in 6th gear, because it provides the heaviest load.  Simply, if it bogs at WOT throttle on the top end, you are too rich, go down a size... If it is still pulling hard all the way through, try going up on the main and see what you get.  Even with little knowledge, checking the plugs while doing this can help.  If it is pulling all the way through (you need to go up...) if you look at the plugs and they are really ghosty maybe jump a few sizes instead of one at a time.  Sorry for the post length hope this helps!

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Thanks for your help. As far as the jetting goes i dialed it in perfect. It runs awsome with the 280 main, 32.5 pilot, and the airbox lid off. The plugs are a dark brown color. As for the needle valve, I'm going to take my carbs off after school, take it apart and see if i cant fix it again. Thanks for your help guys!