azbanshee99 Posted November 8, 2004 Report Posted November 8, 2004 (edited) I just installed a 404 kit from White Knuckle Racing. I went through the normal brake in cycle and when I got to the point to start opening up the throttle I found that I cannot get past half throttle with out it falling on its face. I am not 100% sure it is jetting but I thaught I would start here. I started with a 165 main, EEK needles at position 3. I have moved the clip up and down, with no success. I tried 162 mains, no change. I installed 155 mains and it actually started to rev a little. This just seems too lean to me. I have tried the spark gap at .028, .020, .015 with no luck, I have backed the timing back to zero degrees with no luck. The bike will rev fine with no load, but when I start to ride, it gets to the point were it should start getting on the pipe and it falls on its face. I pulled the plugs and the are oily and wet, I installed new ones just in case they were fouled, no luck. I am running a petreolium based oil at 32:1 for the brake in. My gas is 100 octane. Any Ideas would be greatly appriciated. Thank You My bike specs are CPI in frames, 35mm PWK, V force reeds, White Knuckle Racing Head with 18cc Domes, timing at +7 Degrees oh and the new 404 kit. Edited November 8, 2004 by azbanshee99 Quote
RNBRAD Posted November 8, 2004 Report Posted November 8, 2004 What are you using for filters/intake system. Seems like around a 160 main shoud be awfully close. Also do you know your compression? Quote
banshee76179 Posted November 9, 2004 Report Posted November 9, 2004 (edited) U need to go up on the mains!!! 155 is way to lean for a 404...Whats ur compression, and elevation? I have a 33mm I'm @ 42 pilot/175 main/3rd clip/air screw 1.5 I have 170 LBs of compression / run 104 oct. @ 600 ft above sea level. And I'm no where near the CC you are at.. Falling on her face @ half throttle is ur needle/air screw.. Chris Edited November 9, 2004 by banshee76179 Quote
Wallynut Posted November 9, 2004 Report Posted November 9, 2004 As said go up on your mains and then play with the pilots. I started to mess around with my 33PWK 2 into 1 set up yesterday. I found that the pilot jets really seem to have more effect then with the stock carbs. At present I'm at 180mains, 50pilot and second from the blunt end on the needle. I'm still too rich off idle, at 42 I was too lean, sputtered no matter where I had the needle. Quote
sredish Posted November 9, 2004 Report Posted November 9, 2004 The 165 main is revving a little because of the leanness, like running it out of fuel, it always rev's a little, and 165 is plenty lean. You need to be at 185 or higher by my guesstimations. I'd say throw a 190 or 195, or hell, even a 200 and see where your at. Be sure to read the plugs. Leave your needle in the 3rd position till you get the main set better, then dial in with the needle. I'd say pilot between 48 and 52 depending on how your machine likes it and they're all different with the single carb. Spark plug gap isn't your problem, and I never gap them, I use them out of the box, they're set fine that way. Quote
azbanshee99 Posted November 9, 2004 Author Report Posted November 9, 2004 Thank's to you guy's for the replies, I got in touch with White Nuckle Racing today and went with his jetting specs (since they ported it). I had to purchase new needles (CGL). I have 55 pilots, CGL needles middle clip and 168 mains. Now it will rev out. I have not yet got on it too hard since I am still braking it in but it is way better. I had no idea that the taper of the needle would cause such a problem. Live and Learn. You guy's might be asking your self why I did not go with his specs to begin with. I am asking the same thing. Thanks Again. Quote
FIRST BANSHEE Posted November 9, 2004 Report Posted November 9, 2004 sounds way lean for a 404 with cpi pipes, the pilot will make it fall on it's face if it is lean,you also said your plugs where oily and wet. are your floats set correctly. Quote
sredish Posted November 9, 2004 Report Posted November 9, 2004 so you have duals? The way you worded your first post made me think you have a single, but you have duals... Quote
fixitrod Posted November 9, 2004 Report Posted November 9, 2004 Your needle will effect the main also. If you lean out the needle you'll most likely need to richen the main to get the proper throttle response. They do work together. If you get a fat needle in there without much taper it will not let as much fuel flow even with it wide open. The needle is still in the way of the venturi when wot. Just something to think about when playing with different needles. Quote
sredish Posted November 9, 2004 Report Posted November 9, 2004 Your needle will effect the main also. If you lean out the needle you'll most likely need to richen the main to get the proper throttle response. They do work together. If you get a fat needle in there without much taper it will not let as much fuel flow even with it wide open. The needle is still in the way of the venturi when wot. Just something to think about when playing with different needles. 278810[/snapback] Exactly, think of it as a hose spigot, and your finger is the needle trying to plug the spigot. The bigger your finger, the less water that's gonna spray on the ground (as in a leaner needle), the smaller the finger, the more water that'll spray (as in a richer needle). The needle opens and closes off the main jet, that's all it does, the taper, length, and diameter effect the transition from the pilot to the main, more or less. Dunno if the helps explain it. Quote
banshee76179 Posted November 9, 2004 Report Posted November 9, 2004 Yeah,that's what I as trying to get across w/needle.air scrw and main jet... Quote
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