Daraji Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 I already got my pro design head. and a fluiyne Radiator is on its way. what about those billet impellers? are they good? is it a must have? does it help increase the flow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheerider11 Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 Yes it's a must have, along with the billet gear mull makes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daraji Posted April 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 Best way to keep the shee cool, jet it right and have good air flow over the rad. Like get an aftermarket grill the is more open than closed. Yes it's a must have, along with the billet gear mull makes. Billet gear mull makes? even if you perfect jetting your shee is gonna heat up here in the middle east thats why im getting fluidyne and now an impeller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheerider11 Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 Coolhead isn't going to help much. Rad, impeller, yes. But a drive gear is more of piece of mind I believe. It won't help cooling I dont think. I've also heard with an impeller you have to be careful it isn't flowing too fast or much as it wont let the fluid cool the engine well enough?? It is a piece of mind, I snapped a gear putting the cover back on so I like them.And that's a really great point about flowing to fast! Since there is no thermostat the hot water can come back faster then the rad can cool it. Especially in ambient heat of 110 degrees or what ever the temp may be over there. I would prob pass out riding in that, how do you do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WINDYCITYJOHN400 Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 The billet impeller does not pose a problem with flowing water too fast to cool. That is a myth as far as banshees go. If you want the #1 cooling system you do all the cooling mods #1 billet impeller #2 Mull metal impeller gear #3 cool head of some type #4 larger aluminum radiator #5 Engine Ice #6 a water temp gauge you can see! With those tools, correct jetting, a clean radiator and airflow thru it. You should stay cool. Other than that.....if your running balls out. Don't hot lap the bike and then just stop....do a cool down lap. Give the radiator a minute to cool all that hot water you just made. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowit Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 1. Flowing fluid too fast through an exchanger is not really a problem of not cooling the engine, it is an issue of efficiency. If that fluid needs to make 3 trips through the exchanger to get it cooled because it is moving too fast, that is an efficiency issue. AKA, wasted power. This means claims of "mega, super, outstanding, stellar, superior" flow will net you nothing. The key is matching the flow rate with the power input into the fluid and the exchange rate (delta T) across the exchanger to maximize cooling in one pass. I do firmly agree with thermostats though. They are mostly used to get an engine up to temp quicker, and help maintain a "constant" temperature in the system which is most important for bearings, seals, and gaskets as well as pistons. We all know what can happen when you flog a cold engine.... 2. Maintaining pressure in a cooling system is paramount and the reason we focused more on that than anything else with out pumps. Your coolant system is pressurized for one reason, to "increase" the boiling point of the fluid. There are always hot spots in an engine that will locally boil water if proper system pressure is not maintained. 3. I have worked closely with a guy in the middle east regarding cooling a big cub engine. It is BIG problem because people seem to ignore cooling when they build that 150hp Banshee. A engine is VERY inefficient with chemical to mechanical transfer and about 60% of the fuel you use goes into heat in the air! This just means you need to be thinking about cooling with every build. Couple that with extreme ambient temperatures and the problem becomes worse. An exchanger is ALL about the differential temperatures of the fluid in it, and air flowing over it. The higher that delta, the more power you can dissipate. As ambient goes up, power dissipation goes down. Just to run in 130*F ambient, you need to roughly double the cooling system capacity for a STOCK engine! Also, as some posters mentioned, water is really your friend, NOT antifreeze. However, antifreeze brings water stabilizer, lubrication, and boil over to the party. I agree with the 3:1 blend but water is not really the "best" coolant, it just has well rounded properties that suit it to this job. It is all about the thermal transfer coefficient of the fluid. The higher the better. There are certainly fluids that are better but have you have to have something inert, stable, cheap, etc. Just stirring the pot! Brandon Mull Engineering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheerider11 Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 Thanks Brandon and windy for clearing that up. Brandon, that's some great info you put up too, nice to always learn new stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bansheeteddy Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 The billet impeller does not pose a problem with flowing water too fast to cool. That is a myth as far as banshees go. If you want the #1 cooling system you do all the cooling mods #1 billet impeller #2 Mull metal impeller gear #3 cool head of some type #4 larger aluminum radiator #5 Engine Ice #6 a water temp gauge you can see! With those tools, correct jetting, a clean radiator and airflow thru it. You should stay cool. Other than that.....if your running balls out. Don't hot lap the bike and then just stop....do a cool down lap. Give the radiator a minute to cool all that hot water you just made. See I went to Eastcoast Atv to buy a billet water pump , billet water pump gear and lager aftermarket radiator tSean said I don't need those parts . So I didn't buy them cause he said if they lasted 10ydats in a bike they must be good . An all they drag bike on there show room floor with 10 mil engines have stock water pumps and stock radiators and running some crazy fast time slips ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon dunner Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 I have a billet impeller, stock radiator and a inline temp gage that helps dissipates the heat. I have no clue how much but can hot lap my ported 421 on gas in the drags or hill climbs and stay at 200 degrees and below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WINDYCITYJOHN400 Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 See I went to Eastcoast Atv to buy a billet water pump , billet water pump gear and lager aftermarket radiator tSean said I don't need those parts . So I didn't buy them cause he said if they lasted 10ydats in a bike they must be good . An all they drag bike on there show room floor with 10 mil engines have stock water pumps and stock radiators and running some crazy fast time slips ! Well get a quote for a fresh re-build while your talking to him. His entire cooling system could fail and how would he know? After all he's only running for 4 seconds....... Now if you ride....you might want to take some advice from ..........never mind. You'll have to get your education on your own dime......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bansheeteddy Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 Well get a quote for a fresh re-build while your talking to him. His entire cooling system could fail and how would he know? After all he's only running for 4 seconds....... Now if you ride....you might want to take some advice from ..........never mind. You'll have to get your education on your own dime......... that's why I'm thinking I'm ride my banshee hard as shit , why not get a billet water pump with billet gear and a larger radiator .i already run be cool engine ice and have Vito's cool heads at 22cc domes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daraji Posted April 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 i got 20 cc domes pro design and im running a stock engine un touched... as i am the 1st owner of my shee, now i don't drag alot after all it is a stock motor with minor mod'z, cool head timing plate, vf4, cpi, jets, k&N pods i was thinking of only adding a fuildyne RAD and a billet impeller and that's all. now about the liquids Iv always used coolant never water. water heats up faster than coolant's. you can try this experiment at home boil water then boil coolant LOL something ud do in the 6th grade, now Antifreeze. I always thought they'd use anti freeze in much much colder weather temp since antifreeze helps you not freeze your engine ( correct me if im wrong im no expert! ) . plz note that here in dubai the coldest days go down to a simple 7 degrees that's if im all the way in the desert far away from the coast line and by the coast a simple 15 degrees.....i don't think ill need antifreeze... in summer our temps reach up to 50 degrees and at night which would be the only time ill be riding itll be something like 35 degrees all the way in the desert. hehe crazy? that's why during summer our quads are always parked. now for my engine with those simple mod's a rad and a billet impeller would be enough dont you think soo. i might even get that billet mull. one more thing abt impellers on my brothers lt500r we rebuilt the entire engine from the people we got it off and i realized his impeller fins have been dissolved through time ( sounds crazy but its the truth!) do u know what the life expectancy for a billet impeller would be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas h. Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 They also make high pressure radiator caps. Stock is 1.1 bar and higher is 1.8 and 2.0. Only get a high pressure cap if you have a Handel bar mounted temp gauge like the 40$ trail tech because stock caps tell you when it's hot. High pressure caps hold a much higher boil and you could fry a motor not knowing because it didn't piss out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blowit Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 now about the liquids Iv always used coolant never water. water heats up faster than coolant's. you can try this experiment at home boil water then boil coolant LOL something ud do in the 6th grade, now Antifreeze. I always thought they'd use anti freeze in much much colder weather temp since antifreeze helps you not freeze your engine ( correct me if im wrong im no expert! ) . plz note that here in dubai the coldest days go down to a simple 7 degrees that's if im all the way in the desert far away from the coast line and by the coast a simple 15 degrees.....i don't think ill need antifreeze... in summer our temps reach up to 50 degrees and at night which would be the only time ill be riding itll be something like 35 degrees all the way in the desert. hehe crazy? that's why during summer our quads are always parked. now for my engine with those simple mod's a rad and a billet impeller would be enough dont you think soo. i might even get that billet mull. one more thing abt impellers on my brothers lt500r we rebuilt the entire engine from the people we got it off and i realized his impeller fins have been dissolved through time ( sounds crazy but its the truth!) do u know what the life expectancy for a billet impeller would be? 1. I agree with Zilla, the fact that your "water" heated up faster proves it makes a better thermal conductor than "coolant"(which Ethelyne Glycol and water). Look up the properties for Ethelyne Glycol, then water. Not only is the thermal conductivity better, but the thermal mass will be higher so you can get more btus out of that engine with water. Remember that a fluid must heat up if you want it to carry that heat out of the engine. 2. There is nothing in a water and EG solution that will dissolve Aluminum. However, coolant will turn acidic over time from a "lack of maintenance". As well, straight distilled water with no EG WILL eat Aluminum. It will actually eat about anything due to its charge. That is why you put EG in the fluid to stablize it. In short, with proper maintenance, a "good" billet impeller should last you 20yrs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickedcarbine Posted April 13, 2013 Report Share Posted April 13, 2013 If I were in the middle east or out west riding in those temps, I'd fab up a smaller radiator like the desert fellas used to run back when Baja was ruled by banshees Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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