Building XC Banshee. Need Input on this Mod

[Thack82]

Okay Guys, Jeff at F.A.S.T. is putting me together a Polished Stock Stroke 392cc Serval. I'm going to have a ton invested in this XC Banshee Motor by the time it's done and I want to make sure it performs and hold up. I've fixed most of the week links associated with a Banshee that prevent it from being a dominate Woods Racer like the suspension, and this Small Mono Block Serval combined with all my bolt on upgrades should give me the low end grunt I'm looking for. The main problem I had with the Stock .020 Cylinders was keeping it cool running that hard through the woods for that long. Any time it was above 70° it got hot and started blowing coolant out of the over flow.

 

 

I know what you guys are thinking, just buy a Bigger Fluidyne Radiator, CV-4 High Pressure Radiator Cap, Billet water Pump, Twin Billet 3" In-line Coolers, Silicon Hose Kit, Cool Head, and run ATV Engine Ice. I have every single cooling upgrade I can find for the Banshee and it still gets hot. I took it to the Local Yamaha Dealer "Lee's Yamaha, Kawasaki, and Suzuki" and had there head Yamaha Mechanic check my jetting to insure that it wasn't overheating do to lean or rich fueling conditions, and I I've tried every Octane Fuel 32:1 Klotz mixture from 93 Pump gas and 110 . I've done just about everything I can think of and I am extremely paranoid of overheating this new Serval.

 

So this is what I'm into. I took the front plastic, radiator, and gas tank off to get an accurate measurement of the space behind the Fluidyne Radiator and the steering stem. With the new Radiator in the stock mounting location I have 1/2 an inch to fit a 7" X 7" Electric Fan "Puller" I researched the entire Internet for two days straight and the thinnest Electric fan made is Fluidynes 7" X 7" X 2.05 Ultra Thin Puller Fan. So I measured to see how far I could move the fan forward and still make it fit correctly behind the stock style radiator plastic cover. I can move it out about a 1/2 inch, so that gives me 1" of clearance between the Steering Stem and the back of the radiator. So I've come to the conclusion that its impossible to mount a electric fan directly to the back side of the radiator and still run the stock style plastic. I do have a Maier Custom "Raptor" Front Plastic with graphics that match the rear that will allow me to move the radiator forward far enough to mount the electric fan but I don't want to be committed to running that front end only.

 

So now I have two choices, I can get Qualex (My Friend's Local Machine Shop) to help me build a shroud that mounts the electric fan between the gas tank and the back of the steering stem, or buy a small additional Universal Aluminum Radiator or Oil Cooler that will house the 7" X 7" Electric Fan and run it in conjunction with my other cooling mods. The Additional Radiator is the choice I'm leaning towards. I would like to mount it near the front bellow the existing Radiator behind the front DG Frame Guard, but I'm also looking at a spot on the rear of the quad behind my DG Side Frame Guard on the opposite side of the Rear Brake Reservoir. (This is just a thought I haven't done ant measuring). Have any of you guys done something like this or know some one who has? Any input would be great.

 

Items I am Purchasing to Install Upgraded Cooling System :

 

• 250 Watt High Output Stator
• High Wattage Output Flywheel (more Magnets)
• Small 7" X 7" X 1.5 Aluminum Radiator and Mounting Hardware
• 12V Slim Line Electric Fan
• 6ft of Silicon Hose

12V Electric Fan

 

Small Aluminum Radiator

 

 

 

Possible Mounting Locations

1

[Thack82]

Oh yea, mabe you guys can answer this question for me too. What is the difference between a oil cooler and a radiator other that the obvious ones made for oil cooling and ones made for coolant?

[So Cal Suspension]

WHAT?!?! No mention of your super-duper suspension setup when asking about motor advice? What gives? This is a first! :clap:

 

Anyways, I'm sure when you get your motor back from Jeff, it will be jetted right, and you won't have to worry about overheating. If you are overheating, it has nothing to do with cooling capacity. Your jetting was WAYYY off if you're overheating at 70 degrees... Or you're 550lbs... one of the two.

 

I ran my banshee in the middle of summer at Glamis 110+, and never had an issue overheating. My buddy is 380lbs, completely stock cooling system, never had an issue in 110 degree heat, WOT through the dunes. You are jetted wrong, and destroying that motor. Good thing Jeff is building you a new one, because your old one was on it's way to being toast.

[Thack82]

how did you know it was overheating other than coolant coming out the overflow? for all you know you could have a bad seal between the cap and rad.

 

i run stock cylinder bored to where the wall is super thin and i ride woods and had my rad covered in mud, didn't over heat at all.

 

 

you are either jetted too lean, or have a coolant flow issue.

 

I run Keihin 28mm "D" Slides with#50 Pilots and 150 Mains, I run the Stock Air Box with with a Ready Foam Filter, and the EHS Outerwears lid. The Elevation I ride at is between 740 and 780 Feet above sea level. When I installed the Carburetors I started with a 160 Main Jet and it chocked it out so I backed sown to the 150 and it seemed to be fine. I guess I should have bought a 155 or 158 and tried it. I thought the Radiator cap might have been the problem so I bought a CV-4 and it didn't do any better and the same deal with the radiator.

 

MattSCSS why don't you get off my case, don't you have anything better to do then stalk me on BHQ and put me down? You've made your point, so give it a break. I know in your eyes my Banshee is junk and and you don't like anything about it. I'm a bigger rider but not 550lbs, I'm 6'2" and I weigh around 218lbs. Theres times in these Endurance Races when you end up hung on a tree root or hung in a rut, when you hammer down in it and your spinning and the bike is moving very little or none at all, it only takes about five seconds before it would start blowing coolant. Thats why I was considering a fan set up of some type.

[So Cal Suspension]

MattSCSS why don't you get off my case, don't you have anything better to do then stalk me on BHQ and put me down?

 

Stalking you? I clicked on the link that appeared on the right side of the homepage under the "Recent Topics" section that said "Building XC Banshee. Need Input on this Mod" and it brought me here. If that's stalking, then I guess I'm a stalker.

 

Anyways, I still stick by my previous statement. You are jetted completely wrong.

[sprinklerman]

I'll second the thoughts that you are/were jetted too lean...THAT'S why you would overheat. You made no mention what you're needles are or what they are set at. I would bet you need to look into that as well ,since doing XC you'd be into the 1/4-3/4 throttle a lot. Make sure you have F.A.S.T go over your jetting thoroughly before you rip on that new serval.

Even at WOT your needle setting comes into play....if its too lean,or the slides aren't ALL the way up, the main just doesn't do its job as well as it should.

Edited August 17, 2011 by sprinklerman

[bbcmudtruck]

You asked for opinions, so your going to get them. Take them with a grain of salt and also reconize the fact people are trying to help you in most cases. If you dont agree with the answer, brush it to the side and wait for the next one. First of all, build a 4mil serval and you will be alot happier. No if ands or buts. I've just recently been on one of jeffs 4mil servals and it absolutely rips! With that said, I've also had a 392 cub. I know its not a serval, but comparable. Stock strokes suck. Period and end of story. Especially if your a bigger guy. I'm about the same size as you, just a little heavier. The stock stroke doesn't have the torque that your going to want through the trials, woods, and hills. Ditch your 28s, get some 35 pwks and roll out. Your cool head isn't helping cool your motor. Your inline radiator lines aren't helping cool your motor. Adding some shrouds wouldn't probably hurt anything as I've seen a few dudes run them. I didn't see if you were running a bigger radiator, if you aren't, get one. I also didn't see you list a billet impellar, if your not running one, put it on your list along with a new water pump bearing. Lastly, ditch the goofy ass Raptor plastic and put the stock front banshee plastic back on her like she deserves. Then see if you can modify it to run a pulling type fan if your still over heating. Engine ice should help.

 

 

You didn't ask about suspension so I won't go into detail. Long story short, Long travel with some Axis, Peps or Elkas all the way around. Also gonna need an Anti vibe stem with some precision vibe bar clamps. A steering stabilizer is one of the best upgrades you can put on your bike aside from shocks. Not a cheap pogo stick style, but a puck style such as precision or Elka. Dont forget bead locks!

 

Tell us how it turns out and post up pics!

[Thack82]

Stalking you? I clicked on the link that appeared on the right side of the homepage under the "Recent Topics" section that said "Building XC Banshee. Need Input on this Mod" and it brought me here. If that's stalking, then I guess I'm a stalker.

 

Anyways, I still stick by my previous statement. You are jetted completely wrong.

 

It just seems like every time I post something on here giving someone my input or ask for someones input on something you start in on me. I never said that my suspension was the very best suspension I only said that I liked it and it was a awesome suspension set up for the money. I run my Banshee in a completely different environment than you do and my competition is also a lot different. I'm not on here to make enemies and fight with people about my bike VS your bike or this mods better than your mod and so on. That being said I'm sure you have a vast amount of knowledge when it comes to the Banshee and I would like to get this set up running strong. What jets would you have been running in my old stock cylinder set up at 740 to 780 feet above sea level?

 

I have the following DG Jets in my jet kit for the Keihin 28mm "D" Slide Carburetors-

 

Mains:

130 X 2

140 X 2

145 X 2

150 X 2

160 X 2

170 X 2

175 X 2

180 X 2

190 X 2

200 X 2

 

Pilots:

#48

#50

 

 

I plan on going to Derby Cycle's this week and buying a set od DG 135's, 155's, 165's, 185's and 195's. At $350 each I would rather have them in my kit and not need them than need them and not have them.