Eric_04

Im still amazed how many people have lockups of some sort installed and have never done any tuning what so ever. I was at some races last weekend (300' dirt) and couldnt believe how many people had a lockout and were still just riding the clutch slipping it out so they didnt bog the motor. Probably due to the fact they had the stiffest springs they could find in the clutch on top of having a lock out. I am in no way trying to offend anybody at all, Im just simply shocked how overlooked working on the clutch is. My background is snowmobile drag racing, and the vast majority of races are won and lost with clutching. Its a constant battle between getting the chassis to handle the power, and once you get that a step better then you smoke the belt. So then you go back to more clutch tuning trying to grab the belt harder, then youre back to doing wheelies and bending and breaking drive train parts again. Its a never ending cycle in an attempt to go faster. These are 600+ horsepower snowmobiles by the way. Now obviously snowmobile clutches are much different than an atv or bike, but the theory is similar. And there are certainly some interesting things from the snowmobile world that I think would work quite well on clutching setups on an atv. . One thing I have noticed in this thread(which has tons of great information and has given everyone the basics to get started) is that the vast majority of the advice is based from asphalt tuning. While it obviously translates to dirt and sand, I just dont think you will be able to see consistent results from such minor spring and weight changes as you would on asphalt. There is huge variety by me, where I was at last weekend the track was practically sand, and paddle tires arent allowed. The track was groomed and watered twice in the morning and had "some" bite in it. It was not touched in the afternoon and was dry and very loose and everybody was spinning hard all the way down the track. If a person had a clutch properly set up for the conditions in the morning, they would have definitely had "too much" clutch in it for the afternoon. But would it have been faster to soften it up and burn through the clutch to try and drive away from the line with less wheel spin? In my opinion, no. That to me would have been chasing a deteriorating track. Not much you could do other than let the tires work and hope you find some decent traction. You may have been better off making chassis adjustments to try to find more traction in this case. I guess what Im getting at, is that bringing awareness to clutch tuning is great. However, many other things affect the overall setup. And a lot of it just comes down to judgement decisions. And that only comes with time and experience. Ive learned more by doing things wrong than doing them right, I can say that for sure. The only thing that makes me slightly apprehensive about this thread, is that people like myself that will be running dirt with no paddles with conditions that change from one class to the next, is that you will not be repeating 60' and 300' et's to the thousandth pass after pass. Should they be close? Absolutely. So I guess all I can say about that is dont get caught up in chasing a track thats going away. Hopefully my post helps a few people think about some other things affecting overall setup, which in turn affects the clutch. My best advice, that applies to all racing, is to test and test some more. Keep solid notes and take ACCURATE measurements. Taking half ass measurements is a total waste. And do not worry about somebody elses setup. Whether it be clutch setup, chassis, whatever. Your machine is different, it will not be the exact same. Somebody elses spring pressure does not matter to you. Not only is their machine different, theyre probably trying to accomplish it in a different way than you are as well. 60' is SUPER important. If you immediately get out 2 or 3 lengths on somebody, it takes a lot of power for them to drive around you in less than 300 feet. Anyways, thats all I have for now. I could type about this for hours, but this is already too much for now and its past my bedtime. Good luck everybody, and dont be afraid to change things. The worst that wil happen is it will go slower and you have to change it back. But you will have learned something in the process.

Lol no I didnt read it until just now. Small world huh? I should really start reading this stuff from the first page more often. I have a question for you.. Do you know where a reasonably priced 60' timer setup can be found? I only need it for a single lane just for testing. I looked at the portatree website and they are pretty pricy. I'd like to be able to use it for my sled as well. Its 60 foots have been 1.28-1.30s but Ive made some changes and havent been on timers since. It feels like the changes made it faster, but we all know how that goes. Also, Ive never owned a banshee, but Im thinking of building a stock frame 4 mil cub, 1-5 override, wheelie bar, drag pipes, lockup clutch, etc. That should be good enough to entertain me for a while and to learn the clutching and chassis setup I would think. A lot of people keep saying spend a little more now and build a 10 mil or 18 dm. I would rather learn the tuning and clutching on something a little smaller first. More power would just mean more fried clutch plates and maybe some other broken parts while trying to dial it in. This would be for drag only on dirt, and maybe on the ice.

Just out of curiosity, has anybody mentioned the effects chassis setups have on clutching? I realize this isnt specifically a "clutch tuning" thing, but it will have an effect on the clutching itself. I am considering buying and building my first banshee this summer for drag racing. I have way more experience drag racing snowmobiles, but I like seeing how fast I can get stuff to run. Im not that concerned about mph, I like the acceleration. Although the concepts are a little different, I see a few ideas that could translate from sled clutches. Im fully aware a cvt and a lockup clutch are 2 totally different things. Im talking about weight profiles and weight placement. Im sure a few people will catch on to what Im getting at. When I say this Im not trying to offend anybody in anyway at all, but these lockup clutches have been around since the 60s in automotive drag racing, maybe even earlier. I seen a few people turning up their noses when comparing their banshees to cars. Although the application isnt exactly the same, if you use a little creative thinking there are so many things that can be taken from the car world and applied to 4 wheeler setup. Between clutch setup, chassis setup, etc. they already did the work over 50 years ago on cars, you just need to think outside of the box a little. I think what most people need to realize is that its the whole setup that matters, not just one thing. And 99% of the time, changing one thing has an affect on something somewhere else. Well, I guess I didnt really have a question lol. This is just my view. I really urge people to look at the similarity to lockup clutches in cars. Theres way more info to be had on theories and setups for car clutches than anything you will find for banshee specific setups. Obviously they are running way more base pressure and much heavier arms, the concept is the same. If you dont realize the similarities then, no offense, maybe clutching isnt for you. And yes I agree, having a baseline is important. I would consider it a reference more than a baseline I guess. Its extremely important to have a reference so you KNOW what you have, and you KNOW what you changed. Otherwise you are just guessing, and guessing certainly never made anybody CONSISTENTLY fast.