dajogejr Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 That's exactly what I was getting at. I am also somewhat interested in the real differences in performance from an engine that was puit together at home with off the shelf parts vs. one that was completely put together and tuned by some one like you. Can you lend any info to that question, Jim? :geek: I can tell you Shane's 4 mil cub ran with my 10 mil all year, and it was setup and spec'd by Nate McCoy, and it ripped all year. I think his best time this year is a 4.19 to my 4.22... I honestly don't know how consistent his bike was all year, I can tell you towards the end of the year mine was very consistent...IF the track wasn't chewed up all to hell. We both have lightened frames, etc. But I think Shane would agree, my bike might be a little lighter, it's chopped more, but...he probably weighs 20 to 25lbs less than me. So...I'd say we were pretty close, within a few lbs of each other rider weight on their own bike. I don't know if our Jockey (BansheeDan) was able to run on Shane's bike faster than Shane was....I can tell you he only made one or two passes on mine, and my times were faster than Dan could put down on mine. I'm sure with practice he'd easily beat my times by a tenth or two.... Dammit Dave, you are really making me consider buying a set of Lectrons........................ :ohmy: Marky.... if these carbs weren't given to me, I probably would never buy them. I'm so glad they were, I'm sold... However, the right needle is the key....and in my opinion, Dennis Packard and Fast by Gast are the Lectron kings. Anyone will tell you they are carbeurate cleaner (spelling..?) and they are not as finicky to temp and altitude changes as your normal carb. The fact you don't have to ever buy jets and drill anything out sure is nice, too... Just twist the metering rod as needed, measure length, and open/close the power jet....WITHOUT having to dump fuel out of the bowl to make adjustments. I honestly read up on them for probably an hour or so, and camatv and I think banshee421 both offered me near identical advice on how to set them up....and it worked perfectly.... I let Jeff borrow my carbs to try out, I won't be riding till ice time. When he's done with them...if you have your build done, pay shipping and you an borrow them....even if you just want to take a look at them. You'll be impressed...guaranteed.. They were given to me, it's too cold to ride in sand right now, and the lakes aren't frozen over...so, they'd just be sitting on my bike (kinda like by pipes now that it got repaired by Shearer...looks pretty...just sitting there...) So I'd be happy to loan them to you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 And...I should add to be fair, JT's (badassbanshee479) 4 mil cub ported by Jeff gave me a run quite a few times this year. He doesn't have all the lightweight goodies Shane and I do...but his bike RIPS nonetheless. He and I had some GREAT Races this year....and we both had a blast... Running with these two all year makes me wish I would've kept my 4 mil sometimes just to see what it could've done on alky with a lockup and override, things it never saw when I owned it in 06. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanYE west Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 (edited) Shane...I've heard of the 10 mil DMs in the 140s'...I wish you had a chance to take my bike for a ride this year... My box stock non-ported 10 mil isn't light years faster than the 4 mils, but I think JT will tell you it is easier to ride, more than likely due to the torque on hand. Now...of course, my best time this year isn't as good as yours...but, with all the passes I put on it, it's pretty darned consistent...fo sho...the Lectrons were by far the best addition I made this year.... You get your frame yet? I'm interested to see this bad boy.... Yeah I know of a few 10 mils making 140's. I was just talking about the 4mils. Yeah.. My best "legit" passes 4.19 at bob's and a 4.14 at albright. I'm still convinced about the 4.11 I usually run around 4.25-4.30. All my fastest passes are on a fresh groom. I couldn't seem to get traction if it wasn't fresh. I had a 1.51 60' and the front didn't lift a bit. So Thats what leads me to think I could use a touch more tire. I think I can still get some better times yet with a lil more TNT. This year I didn't change anything but timing. I was just getting seat time. Yeah.. Dan was always a lil hesitant to get into the throttle with my bike.. He really didn't care for the twist throttle and was always worried about it coming up on him. Believe it or not.. Dan actually helped me out with my RT's.. After I tried it.. I started pulling .5's and 6's instead of my usual .8's and .9's lol Edited November 8, 2007 by Fouledout421 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 I refuse to run a twist throttle...just unnatural on a quad for me. Tried it, didn't like it... (Plus, easier to hook a WOT NOS switch to thumb...LOL) My reaction times were getting MUCH better as the year went on, same for me too, from .700 to .900 to .5 and .6 as well. I got a stack of time slips like no one's business...LOL... When mine came up....normally the time suffered naturally... But mine likes to run on a clean track too, that's how all my best times were had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanYE west Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 I refuse to run a twist throttle... Trust me!!! It wont be there next year! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanYE west Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 (edited) Yeah I know of a few 10 mils making 140's. I was just talking about the 4mils. Yeah.. My best "legit" passes 4.19 at bob's and a 4.14 at albright. I'm still convinced about the 4.11 I usually run around 4.25-4.30. All my fastest passes are on a fresh groom. Sorry I had a typo here.. I meant... I'm still not convinced about the 4.11 at ablright.. Edited November 8, 2007 by Fouledout421 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Sorry I had a typo here.. I meant... I'm still not convinced about with the 4.11 at ablright.. Just remember, when you sell the combo...that's the one you advertise... :yelrotflmao: :beer: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PassionRE Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 (edited) That's exactly what I was getting at. I am also somewhat interested in the real differences in performance from an engine that was puit together at home with off the shelf parts vs. one that was completely put together and tuned by some one like you. Can you lend any info to that question, Jim? :geek: Numbers are concieving unless you know what to look for. For instance...last year my 421 alky was pumping out 110hp on a relentlessly stingy dyno...thought I had really done something. That motor was a complete turd compared to my current set-up. Havnt had a chance to dyno it since the latest eureka thoughts.... and Ive been working on new pipes etc...will let you know when the time comes. PIPES or having your porting matched to your pipes in relation to compression ratio, flame speed,and burn duration is where its at...trust me...theres more than one way to do it. Correct intake resonance alterations help alot as well...It makes the difference between fast, and simply just stupid fast....Jim Edited November 9, 2007 by PassionRE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PassionRE Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 Numbers are concieving unless you know what to look for. For instance...last year my 421 alky was pumping out 110hp on a relentlessly stingy dyno...thought I had really done something. That motor was a complete turd compared to my current set-up. Havnt had a chance to dyno it since the latest eureka thoughts.... and Ive been working on new pipes etc...will let you know when the time comes. PIPES or having your porting matched to your pipes in relation to compression ratio, flame speed,and burn duration is where its at...trust me...theres more than one way to do it. Correct intake resonance alterations help alot as well...It makes the difference between fast, and simply just stupid fast....Jim I forgot to add that on ANY hi-perf 2 stroke...if you cant calculate the proper compression ratio to match your pipe/porting combo, youll never hit the really nasty violent sweet spot....Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Madd Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 I forgot to add that on ANY hi-perf 2 stroke...if you cant calculate the proper compression ratio to match your pipe/porting combo, youll never hit the really nasty violent sweet spot....Jim What would that be on a non ported 421 w/Shearer SB outframes on alky? If you don't give up your secrets, I won't get disgruntled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bansheefreak Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 The Cheeteh is a great cylinder but not always as easy to get your hands on at this time. i just happen to have a set of 421 cheetah pv for sale in anyone is interest pm me.. got pics coming soon soon.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PassionRE Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 What would that be on a non ported 421 w/Shearer SB outframes on alky? If you don't give up your secrets, I won't get disgruntled. Straight to the good stuff huh? When your ready for the extra 20+ horses your missing out on, give me a call. those specs are for competition track engines only...definately not for casual horror Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireHead Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 I can tell you Shane's 4 mil cub ran with my 10 mil all year, and it was setup and spec'd by Nate McCoy, and it ripped all year. I think his best time this year is a 4.19 to my 4.22...I honestly don't know how consistent his bike was all year, I can tell you towards the end of the year mine was very consistent...IF the track wasn't chewed up all to hell. We both have lightened frames, etc. But I think Shane would agree, my bike might be a little lighter, it's chopped more, but...he probably weighs 20 to 25lbs less than me. So...I'd say we were pretty close, within a few lbs of each other rider weight on their own bike. I don't know if our Jockey (BansheeDan) was able to run on Shane's bike faster than Shane was....I can tell you he only made one or two passes on mine, and my times were faster than Dan could put down on mine. I'm sure with practice he'd easily beat my times by a tenth or two.... Marky.... if these carbs weren't given to me, I probably would never buy them. I'm so glad they were, I'm sold... However, the right needle is the key....and in my opinion, Dennis Packard and Fast by Gast are the Lectron kings. Anyone will tell you they are carbeurate cleaner (spelling..?) and they are not as finicky to temp and altitude changes as your normal carb. The fact you don't have to ever buy jets and drill anything out sure is nice, too... Just twist the metering rod as needed, measure length, and open/close the power jet....WITHOUT having to dump fuel out of the bowl to make adjustments. I honestly read up on them for probably an hour or so, and camatv and I think banshee421 both offered me near identical advice on how to set them up....and it worked perfectly.... I let Jeff borrow my carbs to try out, I won't be riding till ice time. When he's done with them...if you have your build done, pay shipping and you an borrow them....even if you just want to take a look at them. You'll be impressed...guaranteed.. They were given to me, it's too cold to ride in sand right now, and the lakes aren't frozen over...so, they'd just be sitting on my bike (kinda like by pipes now that it got repaired by Shearer...looks pretty...just sitting there...) So I'd be happy to loan them to you... In addition to my other question posted above, what do you think about a frame like yours vs. a suspended after market frame with respect to rigidity and improving your time down the track? I think I am sold on the Lectron idea. I need to call Packard one of these days when I get a spare second. I have seen them before and am quite infatuated with weirdo fuel delivery systems these days. I appreciate the offer to borrow yours, but you know me, I like to fool around with my engine stuff more than most folks and would be afraid to screw up your carbs. As an update, I still haven't fired the engine with our stud project in it. I bailed on a hunting trip this weekend so I can spend a day at one of my dyno cells with that engine and the engine for my blue bike. So we'll see what I think of the studs then. I have a half ass plan to get a strain gauge or two on them for the test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireHead Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 Numbers are concieving unless you know what to look for. For instance...last year my 421 alky was pumping out 110hp on a relentlessly stingy dyno...thought I had really done something. That motor was a complete turd compared to my current set-up. Havnt had a chance to dyno it since the latest eureka thoughts.... and Ive been working on new pipes etc...will let you know when the time comes. PIPES or having your porting matched to your pipes in relation to compression ratio, flame speed,and burn duration is where its at...trust me...theres more than one way to do it. Correct intake resonance alterations help alot as well...It makes the difference between fast, and simply just stupid fast....Jim I have the pipes for my blue bike that were setup by Matt for what I am using for porting, so I am optimistic with respect to that part of my engine system. Some asshole whacked my case near the front engine mount when milling my crank chamber, so I am dealing with that right now on the engine. Hopefully, I can finish the program without too many other mistakes being made. I fixed the retract tool path that caused it........... At this point I am feeling a bit rusty with the CNC stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireHead Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 I forgot to add that on ANY hi-perf 2 stroke...if you cant calculate the proper compression ratio to match your pipe/porting combo, youll never hit the really nasty violent sweet spot....Jim I agree. With that said, I cheat and run a CFD simulation before I finalize my design of either sets of components. :biggrin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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