FullThrottle_06' Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Guys I need your help on this pretty bad. I have an 06' shee that I bought about a month and a half ago and I have made some small, but good mods to since then. I haven't been able to take it out on a full ride yet do to bad weather and work. I am trying to make it to a race (sand drags 300ft) in two weeks so I need this damn thing tuned on the natts ass and I am having HELL. I live on a small dead end road that I buzz up and down on to make adjustments on it. The bike is pretty much ALL STOCK except for the following: * FMF Fatties, PowerCore II Silencers * TORS delete kit * NO air box, K&N Pod When I went and looked at this thing it ripped! I mean it ran damn good. Brought it home and buzzed it around here and there to get it all out of my system until I go out on a ride. It slowly developed a small bog on the low end, but once you hit the power band it hooked up and moved. The bog progressively got worse so I decided to tear the carbs down and look and see what this bike was jetted at, which was: *320 Main, Jet Needle 5N7 2nd clip from the blunt end ( on the rich side). 25 Pilot. My current elevation is: 500-550. Pretty much sea level. So after doing alot of research and listening to different folks on this website (Very big help) I figured that this set up was WAY rich and that was my problem. But before making any moves I contacted F.A.S.T. racing and asked advice. Jeff agreed with what I explained to him and was given advice to switch to either a 300 OR 290 Main, and a 27.5 Pilot. Here is where the problem begins. Atleast where I started and am currently stuck at. I installed the 27.5 pilots but went ahead and kept with the 320's in fear of going lean and played with the needle position instead. Right now the bike is currently set up with the needle on the 3rd position ( in the middle) air screw 2 turns out. Still bogs like HELL and I can NOT get it to go away. It picks up on the low end alright, but when you hit 1/4 to WOT it bogs. I did not play with the needle anymore because my left pipe was smoking more than the right, and was also cooler. My right side pipe was hotter and was smoking less. I'm going to attatch some pics of the plugs I took so maybe this will help explain this better. I run 40:1 pre-mix with yamalube 2R. I installed new plugs when I began all of this. Yes, I have the carb slides in correctly. Yes, they are in sync. I have made sure I have spark to both cylinders. I made sure the wires on the coil were making a good connection. Compression is good on both cylinders (within 5 PSI of each other 120 on the left, 124 on the right). I don't know where to go with this?? I need MAJOR help please. I'm sorry this is a damn novel but I am trying to make this as clear as possible to everyone. Needing help guys.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullThrottle_06' Posted May 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Guys I need your help on this pretty bad. I have an 06' shee that I bought about a month and a half ago and I have made some small, but good mods to since then. I haven't been able to take it out on a full ride yet do to bad weather and work. I am trying to make it to a race (sand drags 300ft) in two weeks so I need this damn thing tuned on the natts ass and I am having HELL. I live on a small dead end road that I buzz up and down on to make adjustments on it. The bike is pretty much ALL STOCK except for the following: * FMF Fatties, PowerCore II Silencers * TORS delete kit * NO air box, K&N Pod When I went and looked at this thing it ripped! I mean it ran damn good. Brought it home and buzzed it around here and there to get it all out of my system until I go out on a ride. It slowly developed a small bog on the low end, but once you hit the power band it hooked up and moved. The bog progressively got worse so I decided to tear the carbs down and look and see what this bike was jetted at, which was: *320 Main, Jet Needle 5N7 2nd clip from the blunt end ( on the rich side). 25 Pilot. My current elevation is: 500-550. Pretty much sea level. So after doing alot of research and listening to different folks on this website (Very big help) I figured that this set up was WAY rich and that was my problem. But before making any moves I contacted F.A.S.T. racing and asked advice. Jeff agreed with what I explained to him and was given advice to switch to either a 300 OR 290 Main, and a 27.5 Pilot. Here is where the problem begins. Atleast where I started and am currently stuck at. I installed the 27.5 pilots but went ahead and kept with the 320's in fear of going lean and played with the needle position instead. Right now the bike is currently set up with the needle on the 3rd position ( in the middle) air screw 2 turns out. Still bogs like HELL and I can NOT get it to go away. It picks up on the low end alright, but when you hit 1/4 to WOT it bogs. I did not play with the needle anymore because my left pipe was smoking more than the right, and was also cooler. My right side pipe was hotter and was smoking less. I'm going to attatch some pics of the plugs I took so maybe this will help explain this better. I run 40:1 pre-mix with yamalube 2R. I installed new plugs when I began all of this. Yes, I have the carb slides in correctly. Yes, they are in sync. I have made sure I have spark to both cylinders. I made sure the wires on the coil were making a good connection. Compression is good on both cylinders (within 5 PSI of each other 120 on the left, 124 on the right). I don't know where to go with this?? I need MAJOR help please. I'm sorry this is a damn novel but I am trying to make this as clear as possible to everyone. Needing help guys.... Ok, scratch that my files are too big to up load sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleeper06 Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 #1 stay with a 32:1 mixture ,the amount of the amount of power gained is not worth it #2 fattys like big pilots so keep the 27.5 for sure but i have used 30s a few times #3 those are stock needles make them all the way rich #4 300 mains #5check your plug caps on a multymeter they should read 3-7.2kohm cap to cap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullThrottle_06' Posted May 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Fantastic Sleeper, Thanks man. I'll give it shot tomorrow when I get off work. Mother nature has finally decided to coroperate with me. I've got 4.5 gallons of 40:1 mixed up with 91 octane. Can I go ahead and run it? Anymore more suggestions or different views from everyone is appriciated. Basically I'm just being a little bitch about making the adjustments because I'm afraid of blowing it up haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burt Reynolds Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 (edited) Im about the same elevation as you. I have had a bunch of bikes with just about the same mods. This is what is spot on for me. 270-280 main without airbox and 260ish with. 27.5 pilot 1 turn out in air screw. I think it will run ok with 300 main but you will probably make more power down near 280 As for the low end bogging,try riding with the air screw 1/2 turn out,then 3 turns out,see wich one is better. If it runs better at 1/2 turn your lean on the pilot. If it runs better at 3 your rich on the pilot. Edited May 5, 2011 by Burt Reynolds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullThrottle_06' Posted May 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 Im about the same elevation as you. I have had a bunch of bikes with just about the same mods. This is what is spot on for me. 270-280 main without airbox and 260ish with. 27.5 pilot 1 turn out in air screw. I think it will run ok with 300 main but you will probably make more power down near 280 As for the low end bogging,try riding with the air screw 1/2 turn out,then 3 turns out,see wich one is better. If it runs better at 1/2 turn your lean on the pilot. If it runs better at 3 your rich on the pilot. Ive read alot on this website about people that have the same mods that I do I have seen them all run the 27.5 pilot. Hell, Jeff even said himself that the more stock banshee's like the 27.5. I started with one turn out yesterday and went from there. At about 1.5 to 2 it seemed to like it. When I get home from work today I'm going to start over with the 300 main and play with the air screw. If im still not getting any results I'll play with the needle position. What is kinda weird to me, is that the left silencer pipe was cooler than the right one was and was also smoking more. The right silencer was hotter and smoking less?? weird?? I wish I could have up-loaded those damn pics. of the plugs so ya'll could see them. I feel confident about making this change today. Hopefully i will see some better results. This shit gets discouraging haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert.b.west Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 I personally think that a 300 main is still kind of fat. I think that it would have been in the 260-280 range. Have you done a plug chop. (I did not read all of the above just kind of skimmed through) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleeper06 Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 hes got pods on there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert.b.west Posted May 5, 2011 Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 True but aren't fatties a low to mid pipe. My best guess would be a 280. Do a plug chop. It will tell you if you are rich on top or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullThrottle_06' Posted May 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2011 True but aren't fatties a low to mid pipe. My best guess would be a 280. Do a plug chop. It will tell you if you are rich on top or not. I haven't done a plug chop yet because I can't get the damn thing to run good enough to do one! I'm going to go put the 300's in and go from there. I was just taught what a "plug chop" was about two weeks ago from Jeff at F.A.S.T. From what I understand is that if the ring is closer to the top of the electrode your lean, and if it is more towards the bottom your rich. or vice versa. I would have to pull up the e-mail again. My only option after that is to install the 290's I have but if that doesn't work I'm going to have to buy more jets because thats all I have on me. I'll check back in here in a bit and tell ya'll how it went..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullThrottle_06' Posted May 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 Alright boy's here where we're at after tonight's tuning session. Started with the 300 main, needle on the 5th position, 27.5 pilot. Fell on its damn face! I played with the air screw from 1/2 tun all the way to 2 turns. The more I ran the screw out counter-clockwise the more the idle ran away with its self. Telling me it was too big. Best I could do was 1/2 turn out and the idle was STILL to high. Nothing extreme or anything but it was just to high. So...Feeling stumped I decied to take the needle position all the way up to the 2nd clip just to see what happens. Didn't do shit which I figured but hey... I'm feelin this whole situation out. So after a couple cigerettes and a few tools thrown around the garage, I kept with the 300's because I knew for a damn fact the 320's were too fat. So I opted to put the 25 pilots back in and put the needle back on the 4th clip. If that didn't work then I was completely out of ideas, except to build a leak-down tester and start looking for air leaks. well WHAT DO YA KNOW!! the bitch liked it! But of course when I just started to get back in the ball park it was getting too late to keep flyin up and down my road without pissing the neighbors off so I had to call it quits for the night. As it sits now, 300 mains, Needle in 4th clip (rich side), 25 pilot, 1 turn out. I'm in the ball park now atleast but now it is bogging slightly from 1/4 to 1/2 but once you hit the power band it takes off. I took it out on the main highway for more of a high speed run. It did alright and it carried itself but it would "ping" or "pop" here and there but it isn't lean I checked the plugs when I got back to the house. Having brand new plugs in it makes it more difficult for me to read them. Sounds stupid but I would rather read plugs that have a few hours on them. I need to think on that piece and decide where I need to go next. I'm CLOSE! but just quite not there. Thoughts Anyone??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleeper06 Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 richen that needle back up an give it a whirl,it might take that stumble out,also ohm the caps out its a must they are bad on everybike i work oln Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullThrottle_06' Posted May 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 richen that needle back up an give it a whirl,it might take that stumble out,also ohm the caps out its a must they are bad on everybike i work oln Will do man thank ya. I didn't ohm the caps yesterday because my omh meter was buried in the back seat of my work truck. I'll dig it out today and check that out. I agree with richening that needle all the way. I think today I should be able to get it running 100%. I'll let ya know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasi S. Posted May 6, 2011 Report Share Posted May 6, 2011 (edited) (One thing to remember is that I´m not an expert.) I have been in a same kind of situation -> trying this and that and nothing works. Here is how I do it now, and it works for me. If everything else is checked and OK (also new plugs and clean filters...) Here is what I do: First I put whatever pilot in there (what people usually use in the same carb´s. 25 to 30 in stockers or 40 to 55 in PWK´s and so on...) and adjust my air-screw 3 turns out. Then I set my needles up to 5.th (rich) Then I put a main jets in that I know they will be 100% sure rich (in your case 300+, in my case I used 170) Then I start the bike and warm it up. After that I will try to find out ONLY is the MAIN jet too fat and how much. If it fail the plugs, I go down at least 3 size and of course put in new plugs and try it again. If it will pull up top, but it will take much time and there is huge smoke coming -> I go down 2 size... When the power (WOT) feels good , I try out 1 size smaller main untill I don´t feel any difference and go back one size richer. Then I will try to find out the mid-range... I drop the needles one notch at the time untill the mid-range is clear. After that I check the reaction between 1/2 and WOT, hitting it hard. If it will hesitate I go up one size in mains. After I have figured out the mid-range and top end, I start to adjust the air screw "15 minutes" at the time, to get my low end figured out. If the best settings, like clear idling and so on is near 3 turns out, I go down one size in pilots. If you have to go as down as 1 turn and it doesn´t feel good, you should go up one size in pilots. My test for the good pilot and air-screw settings is... I ride on 1.st gear with less than 1/8 on throttle on the flat surface (walking/joging speed). If it will start to split and suffer, it´s drowning on gas and I go leaner with the air-screw, one other thing that says it is a little rich is when I pull my clutch in and it just dies. I keep this going untill it can go at least 150 to 200 ft´s without sliting and when I pull my clutch in it will stay running with a good idling. If the idling is rying to stay high and comes down slowly it is a tad on a lean side. After all of this I´ll check my air-screw settings. If I´m closer to 0.75 to 1 I´ll go up one size in pilot jet. If I´m closer to 2 or over, I will go 1 size smaller pilot. If I have to do it, I´ll start my test all over again untill I´m happy. After you are happy with it, you can do a plug test and see how it looks. If your plugs look like they are rich and you want to go leaner but you can´t because your transition from the half throttle to WOT will hesitate or it will fall on his face and die, your problem is the needles. Sorry my bad english! If you can´t understand what I´m trying to say, just ignore my post. LOL! ...and like I have said above, this work for me, and this is the only way how I can jet and adjust my carb´s. Good luck to you. -Pasi S. If you can´t get it right from down low to up top, your biggest problem can be your needles. oh, one other thing... I try to adjust my carb´s when it´s 15 degree in celsius, air-screw close to 1.5 turns out and the needle in the 3.rd . This way I can ride it with a minimal adjusting during my riding season temps 5 to 25*C. Under and above I have to adjust the needle and maybe change my pilot. Most of these ideas are not mine. Some of them are from my good friend from here, and some of them are from my good local friend who is a 2-stroke sled racer. Edited May 6, 2011 by Pasi S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FullThrottle_06' Posted May 7, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2011 Holy Cow! Thats definetly one way of doing it. I appreciate your advice and how you tune your machine, but that's like taking a row boat to get to England man. I'm still getting my feel how to tune banshee's and what factors all have to be working together to make her run like a stripped ass ape but I would rather just look at what mods have been done that alters the engines performance. Then get somewhere close within the ball park and go from there. But, I mean doing that is pretty much what your saying. Your just going about it a different way, but still looking for the same result. To each their own I suppose. I like Sleepers view on tuning and how he looks at it. I think mine and his ideas on tuning is pretty much the same except he is a hell of a lot more experienced than me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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