Eric Krupp Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 1987 Banshee Vito's 404 Monoblock 4mm Crank 4 Deg Timing Advance Trinity Stage IV Intake 2 into 1 Kehien PWK 38 with K&N V-Force Reeds Toomey T5 Works Dual Rates Lonestar Front and Rear 91 Octane Castor 927 at 32:1 950 Feet above sea level 65 Degrees The list continues but not needed. My issue is this. I am running PWK 38 with a 35 Pilot, air screw 1 1/2 out, FEJ Needle clip in the middle position Mains ranged from 195 to 200. Please see attached picture. The issue I have is that all of these plugs look close to me but the base rings of my plugs never color which should tell me I'm lean. The bike starts good and runs good but this plug issue is eating me up. Could I be too lean on my pilot and I am trying to compensate with the Main? This has been a strong motor and I don't want to eat up due too poor jetting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Krupp Posted October 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 1987 BansheeVito's 404 Monoblock 4mm Crank 4 Deg Timing Advance Trinity Stage IV Intake 2 into 1 Kehien PWK 38 with K&N V-Force Reeds Toomey T5 Works Dual Rates Lonestar Front and Rear 91 Octane Castor 927 at 32:1 950 Feet above sea level 65 Degrees The list continues but not needed. My issue is this. I am running PWK 38 with a 35 Pilot, air screw 1 1/2 out, FEJ Needle clip in the middle position Mains ranged from 195 to 200. Please see attached picture. The issue I have is that all of these plugs look close to me but the base rings of my plugs never color which should tell me I'm lean. The bike starts good and runs good but this plug issue is eating me up. Could I be too lean on my pilot and I am trying to compensate with the Main? This has been a strong motor and I don't want to eat up due too poor jetting. Picture of uncut used plug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireHead Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 I have never met anyone that had one of those cylinders that knew anything about what they were doing (though you clearly seem to know what you're doing). Therefore I don't have any real experience with them.............. However, the 220 jet looks aight. PM dajogejr on here. He seems to be an encylopedia for jetting on all sorts of Banshee engine based configurations. :thumbsup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Krupp Posted October 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 Picture of the total package. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Krupp Posted October 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 I have never met anyone that had one of those cylinders that knew anything about what they were doing (though you clearly seem to know what you're doing). Therefore I don't have any real experience with them.............. However, the 220 jet looks aight. PM dajogejr on here. He seems to be an encylopedia for jetting on all sorts of Banshee engine based configurations. :thumbsup: Firehead, If I knew what I was doing i wouldn't be here but Thanks either way. I am a machinist and in my opinion the Monoblock is a rock solid design and it runs good. I had 4-5 Trinity 420's before this motor but they never stayed together whether I put them together or Trinity did. I had both short and long rods and they had nothing on this motor performance wise. This plug thing is kicking my ass though. What makes you say the 220 looks better than the rest? It is darker than the 210 but it is also narrower in width. Not to mention that is the largest jet I can buy so what am I going to do when the temp drops here in Missouri? I have read all the "Plug Chop" posts and tend to think this is the best practice but it still seems a bit vague. The second picture of the base ring is what really has me confused. It should be much darker without a doubt. Not sure what is going on. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Krupp Posted October 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 All, I noticed in my original post that I stated "my mains ranged from 195 to 200". As the picture shows that is incorrect. The range was actually 195 to 220 as noted in the pictures. Sorry, Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopczynski Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 How does it run? Does it climb rpm even, is it light switchy, does it burble or hesitate anywhere? Is it smokey at all? How about oil residue in the silencers? How are you testing it (on the street, sand)? Thats an extremely rich running needle by size. Best way to jet a bike is using an egt, its fool proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Krupp Posted October 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 How does it run? Does it climb rpm even, is it light switchy, does it burble or hesitate anywhere? Is it smokey at all? How about oil residue in the silencers? How are you testing it (on the street, sand)? Thats an extremely rich running needle by size. Best way to jet a bike is using an egt, its fool proof. Snop, It actually run very well. Does not smoke. Some oil on silencers but have not cleaned them in a while. I am testing on blacktop on a pretty good grade. Should I try an EEK on the needle. My biggest concern is the base ring not showing color in the second photo. Can you explain the process of tuning by EGT. I just took my digatron off about 3 months ago. Is it like a plug chop? What temps are optimal? Regards, Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopczynski Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 when you tune with an egt you just jet it till your hittin just under 1250 degrees at wot. There is a possibility the needle is causing some weird stuff on the top end if it is massively rich. I dont see the main needing to be much bigger than a 205 0r 210, but its hard to say. I have never seen the size of the ports in a vitos monoblock. Oil in the silencers is an indicator its running rich somewhere. When you go from 200 and move up to 220 doe sit ever seen to run different on the topend? Whats the main purpose of this bike, Sand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajogejr Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 I am very impressed with the lengths you have gone to get this dialed in...very nice. I would not know where to start with a single carb setup, however....and such a big carb, 38mm, might cause you issues. A pair of 35s or a single 35s might be a better start for you. That small of a pilot does seem odd, especially feeding two cylinders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Krupp Posted October 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 when you tune with an egt you just jet it till your hittin just under 1250 degrees at wot. There is a possibility the needle is causing some weird stuff on the top end if it is massively rich. I dont see the main needing to be much bigger than a 205 0r 210, but its hard to say. I have never seen the size of the ports in a vitos monoblock. Oil in the silencers is an indicator its running rich somewhere. When you go from 200 and move up to 220 doe sit ever seen to run different on the topend? Whats the main purpose of this bike, Sand? Most of the riding I do anymore is trails and gravel roads/blacktop. I live in BFE so I can get away with it. The nearest sand is a good 10 hours of driving away. I can't tell you that it does run any better with the 220 over the 200. What confuses me is that the smoke ring on the 220 plug is narrower than the 200. Shouldn't it be wider? What about that base ring on the uncut plug? That is what is really screwing my head. If that thing was brown like it is suppossed to be I would say screw it and ride. It is plenty fast enough. I think I might try going up to a 40 pilot, an EEK Needle and a 200 Main then re chop. Right now I am at the minimum jet on the bottom and the max at the top. Seems odd. I may remount my Digitron and check the main that way. What will my temps doif I go too big on the main? Drop or raise? It seems to me lean would be hotter and rich would cool it back down but at this point I am not sure of anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Krupp Posted October 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 I am very impressed with the lengths you have gone to get this dialed in...very nice. I would not know where to start with a single carb setup, however....and such a big carb, 38mm, might cause you issues. A pair of 35s or a single 35s might be a better start for you. That small of a pilot does seem odd, especially feeding two cylinders. That was a small sampling of what I have done. Here is the entire pile. I think I am going to try a 40 Pilot, EEK Needle and a 200 Main and see where that puts me. The base ring color in the second picture is what is stumping me. The plug chops look alright but the base ring color never gets any darker. Could something else be affecting this like timing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopczynski Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 Your confusing yourself because the cylinders are burning so rich, its washing your plug down with fuel. Thats why your not getting a good color ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Krupp Posted October 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 Your confusing yourself because the cylinders are burning so rich, its washing your plug down with fuel. Thats why your not getting a good color ring. That is kind of what I wanted to hear. I think I may have been compensating for a small pilot with a fat needle and main. I have changed to the following and will test as soon as it stops raining. I think I am over analyzing the entire procedure. Main 200 Needle EEK 2nd from top Pilot 48 1 1/2 out Gonna chop the mains and see what I have now. I'll send pics. Thanks for the help, I REALLY appreciate it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopczynski Posted October 15, 2008 Report Share Posted October 15, 2008 That is kind of what I wanted to hear. I think I may have been compensating for a small pilot with a fat needle and main. I have changed to the following and will test as soon as it stops raining. I think I am over analyzing the entire procedure. Main 200 Needle EEK 2nd from top Pilot 48 1 1/2 out Gonna chop the mains and see what I have now. I'll send pics. Thanks for the help, I REALLY appreciate it! I would think it would be in more of the range of an EEJ and a 42 or 40 pilot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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