3TV

I use Engine Ice in my KTM 525 MXC (it works great), so I just went and read what it says on the bottle about mixing it. It says to use it straight, and not to mix it, but I take that as meaning you should not dilute it with plain water. I don't think it is meant to imply that you cannot mix it with other premixed antifreeze (or Water Wetter). I don't think adding Water Wetter to Engine Ice will improve the effectiveness of Engine Ice though. Just my .02

Thanks once again for the input everyone. The learning curve is pretty steep . dlnoss, Thanks for the list of engine builders. You can bet I will check with each one of them. FASTOYS, what changes would you make to bump that motor up to a 9-10? 3TV

Ok, I'm starting to narrow it down a bit. How does the following list sound, and roughly how much horsepower is this going to make? Cheetah Cub, +7mm stroke, 68mm bore Race spec cylinder porting Case port matching RKT Billet head 35mm PWK carbs Billet intakes K&N filters Adjustable timing plate V-Force reeds Clutch lock-out T-5s On a 1 to 10 scale, with a stock Banshee being a 1, and a super quick hillshooter being a 10, where would this one rank? Thanks. 3TV

Thanks for the replies everyone, that gives me several more places to check out before choosing a performance package that looks best for me. I plan on keeping this Banshee forever, being as Yamaha will stop making them after this year. I've always wanted a wicked fast Banshee, so this is going to be it. I would like to really trick it out, with both motor and suspension mods, and I have a few more questions... If I build a really fast hillshooter will I be able to desert race it if I want to, or should I just plan on desert racing something else? Even if I do desert race the Banshee it will only be for a year or two, then it will be retired to hillshooting and dune riding only, and I would rather not do a major engine build up twice, with a "partial" build up now, and a more involved build up in a few years. Keep in mind that our desert races are run on motorcycle race courses, so they are very tight, technical, and rough, compared to the usual Best In The Desert race course or SCORE race course. Is it possible to build a Banshee engine that will win 80% of the time hillshooting, and still be rideable at other forms of racing, for ~$4000? We don't have any good machinest around here that I know of (southwest corner of UT), so if I get one of the 7mm, 10mm, 14mm, or 16mm motors I would want to send the whole motor off for teardown, installation, and re-assembly. We could handle a 4mm motor locally.

Well I'll be using the bike for general du ning, and hillshooting, and may also do some desert racing with it. What are the 500cc Trinity Banshees like, compared to a 535cc Cheetah? What is the difference in cost? And who besides Triinity offers performance packages? 3TV

Man am I sick of getting beat at hillshooting. If I ride my DS650 and my 15 year old son rides his YFZ, he wins by four bike lengths. If I ride his YFZ and he rides my DS650, he wins by five bike lengths. He is a string bean of a kid, and I outweigh him by a hundred pounds And when riding my wife's TTR-125cc dirt bike I even lost to my 9 year old son on his Grizzly 125. I think I lost every race I ran last weekend. No more Mr. Nice Guy I bought the Banshee a month ago, and had initially wanted to mildly mod the motor, and focus on suspension, for desert racing only. But after last weekends hillshooting performance I have decided that I will need more than initially planned for. I want power. Is it generally better to piecemeal together the performance parts for more power, or is it generally better to buy a "package deal" from a reputable engine builder? Who are the good engine builders for Banshees? Are the really big Banshees still rideable for general duning? And would they still be usable for desert racing if I decide I want to do that with my Banshee? I'm talking about the 535cc, 585cc, and 610cc Cheetah motors. I would think a big motor running "normal" compression and "normal" fuel would be a better all purpose Banshee, that could still get me to the top of the mountain first, than say an extensively ported 350 - 400cc Banshee that needs high compression, or alcohol. Lets hear what you have to say. Thanks in advance. 3TV

How do the a-arms in your first picture come set up sanddraggon? Can I get them in +2, or only +3? Thanks. 3TV

The needle clip is in the bottom groove, which is two lower than stock. So my bad, I thought there were six grooves. We went from 5000 ft and 95 degrees with the lid on, to 8000 ft and 68 degrees with the K&N powerlid. Our first attempt was with the stock jetting, and it was way way way too lean. We settled on what I reported. Have a good one. 3TV

Just in case anyone is doing a search on high altitude jetting in the future, I'll post this for follow up. With an otherwise stock Banshee, going from a stock airbox to an airbox with a K&N powerlid required changing from the 4th to the 6th notch with the needle clip, and changing from the stock 200 main jets to 340 main jets. I thought that was surprising, considering the 8,000 feet altitude we did the jetting at. The bike ran strong though. 3TV

What is going to give the best overall handling? +2, or +2/+1; Both with 3+2 wheel offset, ... or +3, or +3/+1; Both with 4+1 wheel offset, ... or +2/+1 with 4+1 wheel offset. And what companies make long travel a-arms (19.5" shocks) for a Banshee? Sand Draggon LSR Roll ? Thanks in advance to those in the know. 3TV

I desert race a 2005 DS 650 right now, and have one more race in this years season still to compete on that ATV (for sponsorship reasons). The DS 650 has Ohlins shocks, a Uni filter, and an HMF exhaust. It also has nerfs, Pro Pegs, and 22" tires, but is otherwise stock. Here's a picture of what I have now; the DS, a KTM 525 MXC, and a YFZ. I will be setting up a Banshee for desert racing next years season.

Why is everyone recommending the T-5s when Toomey's web site is touting the T-6 as having five more horsepower than their T-5, while having just as much low end? Why not recommend the T-6? 3TV

Thanks for the good post on jetting. I guess what my real question is: . . . Is the removal of the airbox lid going to be enough to offset the increase in altitude? My Banshee is jetted a tad too rich at 5000 ft with the airbox lid on. If I remove the airbox lid, keep the same jetting, and go up another 5000 feet in altitude, will the jetting still be ok, or will it be too lean, or too rich? 3TV

I will be going on vacation next week to the Skyline Drive area of central Utah, and would like to get my jetting somewhere in the ballpark before going. Stock Banshee with K&N filter and K&N power lid on the airbox (essentially an open airbox). Altitude will be 9000 to 11000 ft. I'm guessing that stock jetting with no airbox lid will be "in the ballpark". Am I going to be close? Thanks. 3TV

But after the Hare Scramble is over you have helmet hair, and that can sometimes be a problem. Yup, ... change the name. 3TV

Thanks for that information BenBB, that is exactly what I was looking for. I'll have to see how far my Banshee will go with me riding it to be sure, but our courses sound a lot like what you have. Being able to go 70 miles would be overkill, so maybe I can get by with a 4 gallon tank. gimmeabeer, I've raced more desert races than I have post on this forum; still asking for input from other racers though. It can't hurt. Thanks for the great information everyone. 3TV

Wow, I spend one day at a motocross track, and look what happened to this post while I was gone . Thanks for all the great information everyone. Seriously, this is great, it really helps. Chipdog, that is one sweet looking Banshee you've got there. Are those +2/+1 a-arms you've got? What brand are they? Sredish, thanks for the list, that sounds about perfect to me. Where should I look to find the suspension mods? I should have spent the day finding out how far my Banshee will go on a tank of gas, because I suck pretty bad on my KTM at motocross. When my son on his YZ125 asked me why I had gone down in the whoop section, I told him "I was regaining control", LOL. 3TV

So how far can a Banshee go with the stock gas tank? That would be worth knowing. 3TV

The races this year have ranged from 36 to 57 miles between gas stops, and that is pretty much typical for this series. Five gallons of gas is a whole lot of weight if you don't need it. So how many miles will a Banshee go on just 4 gallons of gas, at race RPM? If I need 5 gallons I'll get the bigger tank, but would really prefer less weight if I can get away with it. And I don't understand the -2 swingarm recommendation. Wont that decrease straight line stability, and make the rear tires hook up better coming out of turns, thereby increasing wheelies? I like the two stroke dirt bike type power of my Banshee, and how easily it slides the rear out in turns. At first I thought the steering stops restricted steering more than on my DS650, until I discovered that I was just way more sideways in turns, and hitting the steering stops because of that. A bit less wheel spin might help some there, but I would not want to loose the two stroke feel it has right now, by getting too much hook up. Better tires will also improve hookup all on their own. I also really like the way the Banshee carries the front end over trail obstacles, and in whoops, with a standard length swingarm. Are people really running a -2 swingarm for desert? It just seems counter-productive to me, although I'm willing to learn from the pro's.

Is this the Sundahl frame you are talking about? LINK Any other links to Sundahl racing frames? 3TV

I looked in the XC/Hare Scrambles forum, and there is nothing there. Besides, the forum isn't even spelled right, and I thought I would post this here instead. I have been desert racing a DS650 in the USRA points series (currently #4 in points), and just bought a Banshee "for the dunes". But after taking the Banshee out on a desert race course, and falling in love with the high revving power, I want to desert race the Banshee. What do the pros recommend for setting up a Banshee desert racer? I'm thinking about a Trinity Pro MX/TT engine package (link) along with a set of Ohlins shocks, holeshot tires, and a 4 gallon IMS gas tank. Anyone have a better way to set up a desert Banshee for $4000 or less? Lets hear your ideas. 3TV

What about Trinity's Pro MX/TT package? Anyone running that set up? 3TV

I weighed a pair of 20x11x9 Haulers, with 8 paddles, and also weighed a set of 20x11x10 Haulers, also with 8 paddles. The 10" tires were a pound lighter for the pair, ... or 1/2 pound lighter each. The scale I used is for shipping on UPS, so is certified accurate, but only to half pound increments. The scale was not sensitive enough to detect any difference in weight between T-9 aluminum 9" wheels vs T-9 aluminum 10" wheels. After weighing both the 9" and 10" tire/wheel options for myself I concluded the 10" combo would be just a smidge lighter overall, so that is what I got.