Am I running lean at the top?

[Twyztid]

I just recently got my shee and was out running it yesterday on various terrain for the first time. At one point last night I had it probably around the 70mph range on a smooth gravel road for almost 1/4 mile. I wasn't really at WOT in any of the gears but I was probably at around 3/4 throttle. Anyway, when I let off the throttle, hit the brakes to slow down, and pulled the clutch to downshift the revs didn't seem to want to come down like normal. It wasn't really screaming but I think it may have been dieseling on it own because it didn't turn off for about 15 seconds even after hitting the kill switch & turning off the key. Also, I have noticed a slight bog mid-throttle that doesn't seem to be present if the rpms are above of below that particular range. It idles fine but it started kinda hard after sitting for 2 weeks. Took about 20 kicks but after it was warm it only takes 1.

 

This seems like it is a jetting problem to me but I would like your opinions. It is all stock with the exception of FMF Fatty pipes/FMF Silencers, K&N filter, and the airbox snorkel removed. My current jetting is 280 mains, stock #25 pilot, and the needle clip on the third (middle) position.

 

Also, it was about 78 degrees & humid when this problem happened and I run an 80:1 fuel mixture (Amsoil Saber 100:1 oil).

 

From what I have read on this site it sounds like I may need to move my needle clip and go up a size or two on the mains. Would moving the needle clip towards the blunt end richen it or do I have that backwards? Would a larger pilot help cold starts at all?

 

What do you guys think?

 

Kevin

[Twyztid]

I also found today when I started it that the right carb is dumping fuel out the vent. I am guessing either a stuck float or the needle/seat isn't sealing properly. I had this once already and saw a slight groove on the rubber tip of the needle so I stole the needle from another set of carbs that I have. I also checked the float height and it seemed OK. After I did that it was fine for a bit but now it is dumping again.

 

With the carb turned upside down, are you supposed to check the height of the float with or without depressing the slight springy feeling that the float has when it is turned upside down?

 

The plugs didn't look really bad to me. The coloring seems to be about what it should but I am new to reading plugs so it could be a little off, I guess. The did look the same.

[dajogejr]

Get rid of that shit oil, IMO...sorry, 80:1 is too lean a mixture for a two stroke, you're starving it for oil...I don't care how good amsoil says it protects, etc.

 

Or at least mix it at a normal 32:1 or 40:1 ratio.

 

I would check for air leaks...they can cause a hard run motor to wanna keep on running...although normally that will show on the plug, not always.

 

Your jetting sounds ok to me...or close enough...

 

Buy a carb rebuild kit, new needles and seats.

Turn the carb upside down and put NO pressure on the floats, the spring in the needle is for a cushion over rough/bumpy terrain.

 

Here is a good post from some people that know 100X more than I ever will (not saying much...lol) and who are very respected for their views and products in the industry...it's good reading.

 

http://www.planetsand.com/forums/ubbthread.../page/0/fpart/1

[Twyztid]

Get rid of that shit oil, IMO...sorry, 80:1 is too lean a mixture for a two stroke, you're starving it for oil...I don't care how good amsoil says it protects, etc.

 

Or at least mix it at a normal 32:1 or 40:1 ratio.

 

I would check for air leaks...they can cause a hard run motor to wanna keep on running...although normally that will show on the plug, not always.

 

Your jetting sounds ok to me...or close enough...

 

Buy a carb rebuild kit, new needles and seats.

Turn the carb upside down and put NO pressure on the floats, the spring in the needle is for a cushion over rough/bumpy terrain.

 

Here is a good post from some people that know 100X more than I ever will (not saying much...lol) and who are very respected for their views and products in the industry...it's good reading.

 

http://www.planetsand.com/forums/ubbthread.../page/0/fpart/1

 

I appreciate that you took the time to reply but I wasn't asking what oil to use. I was just informing what I am running and this thread is NOT to be turned into a "What Oil Is Best" thread. I have already looked into that and decided on the Amsoil with that ratio.

 

The link that you listed requires a login. Is there a way to see the thread without having to register?

 

Thanks,

Kevin

Edited October 8, 2007 by Twyztid

[Coupelx]

I appreciate that you took the time to reply but I wasn't asking what oil to use. I was just informing what I am running and this thread is NOT to be turned into a "What Oil Is Best" thread. I have already looked into that and decided on the Amsoil with that ratio.

 

 

:laugh:

[Twyztid]

:laugh:

 

 

Did I say something funny???

[dajogejr]

I appreciate that you took the time to reply but I wasn't asking what oil to use. I was just informing what I am running and this thread is NOT to be turned into a "What Oil Is Best" thread. I have already looked into that and decided on the Amsoil with that ratio.

 

The link that you listed requires a login. Is there a way to see the thread without having to register?

 

Thanks,

Kevin

 

Ahh..yeah, PS does require a register.

It was a link to Amsoil failure, you're already convinced it's what you're gonna use, so...it's not worth it...

 

Have you done a plug chop? Reason i ask is 280 might be a little fat still using an airbox lid...but that still shouldn't cause it to run on.

 

Do you have pics of the plugs you pulled out?

Do you know how much compression you have?

Is the timing stock?

What gas are you running (Octane)?

[Twyztid]

Ahh..yeah, PS does require a register.

It was a link to Amsoil failure, you're already convinced it's what you're gonna use, so...it's not worth it...

 

Have you done a plug chop? Reason i ask is 280 might be a little fat still using an airbox lid...but that still shouldn't cause it to run on.

 

Do you have pics of the plugs you pulled out?

Do you know how much compression you have?

Is the timing stock?

What gas are you running (Octane)?

 

As I said before, I appreciate you trying to help me. It's just that I read a BUNCH of threads about what oil to use and came to the conclusion that I could safely run the Amsoil Saber 100:1 oil at the 80:1 mixture. Choosing what oil and what mixture ratio seems to be kinda like choosing what motor oil you are gonna run in your car. Everyone has their own opinion, which doesn't mean they are right. Typically, in the end I make my own decision based on reading threads and gathering opinions.

 

Anyway, I don't have pics of the plugs right now but I could get some tomorrow night. The seemed pretty normal to me. I didn't chop them but they both looked the same. The coloring of the ground strap looked right, there wasn't any signs of detonation that I could see and they had a nice brown color on the porcelain at the top part. I couldn't really see the bottom because I didn't chop them.

 

I haven't checked the compression yet because it runs strong and has only like 6 hours on a full .030 over rebuild (crank, pistons, rings, bearings, rods, & head) that the previous owner had a local company do just before I bought it. He had it rebuilt intending on riding it but never really rode it because he had another ATV. I have a compression tester so I could do that as well if needed. Do you think compression really has anything to do with the dieseling issue I had?

 

The timing is stock.

 

I am running 92-93 octane depending on what gas station I go to.

 

I am running BR8ES plugs gapped to .030". I think that is the gap anyway. My SeaDoos also take that same plug. I know that one is supposed to be a .028" and the other .030". I am pretty sure that the Banshee is the .030. The previous owner had BR9ES plugs in it but I don't know why. I didn't think it the setup needed a different plug than stock so I went back to stock with the plugs. The BR9ES are one range colder, right?

 

 

Do you think a stuck float or needle not sealing would have had anything to do with it not shutting off immediately when I hit the kill switch?

 

 

Kevin

[dajogejr]

Do you think compression really has anything to do with the dieseling issue I had?

 

The timing is stock.

 

I am running 92-93 octane depending on what gas station I go to.

 

I am running BR8ES plugs gapped to .030". I think that is the gap anyway. My SeaDoos also take that same plug. I know that one is supposed to be a .028" and the other .030". I am pretty sure that the Banshee is the .030. The previous owner had BR9ES plugs in it but I don't know why. I didn't think it the setup needed a different plug than stock so I went back to stock with the plugs. The BR9ES are one range colder, right?

Do you think a stuck float or needle not sealing would have had anything to do with it not shutting off immediately when I hit the kill switch?

Kevin

 

Diesling is caused by an heat...

that heat is caused by an air leak, too lean fuel mixture, too much compression or not enough octane for that compression.

 

Your jetting sounds about right. Maybe a hair rich...but, big deal...

So...I'm kinda ruling lean jetting out.

 

Which leads me to an air leak...possible.

If he just had the motor done, it is possible he had the head shaved..and they very easily could've shaved it too much. Causing higher compression, which could cause dieseling with not enough octane.

 

If the floats are dumping fuel into the engine...that could cause run on...but unlikely...it would have to be a LOT of fuel...

 

BR8ES gapped .028 to .030 is just fine....

 

Since you're not 100% familiar with this engine, at the least I'd do a compression check just for sanity's sake...

[Twyztid]

Diesling is caused by an heat...

that heat is caused by an air leak, too lean fuel mixture, too much compression or not enough octane for that compression.

 

Your jetting sounds about right. Maybe a hair rich...but, big deal...

So...I'm kinda ruling lean jetting out.

 

Which leads me to an air leak...possible.

If he just had the motor done, it is possible he had the head shaved..and they very easily could've shaved it too much. Causing higher compression, which could cause dieseling with not enough octane.

 

If the floats are dumping fuel into the engine...that could cause run on...but unlikely...it would have to be a LOT of fuel...

 

BR8ES gapped .028 to .030 is just fine....

 

Since you're not 100% familiar with this engine, at the least I'd do a compression check just for sanity's sake...

 

I don't think the head was shaved at all because he told me it was a new, stock head. I better check the compression anyway. What is normal for a stock motor?

 

I will also have to check to make sure that my fuel petcock isn't partially clogged. I guess it might have been starved for fuel.

[dajogejr]

I don't think the head was shaved at all because he told me it was a new, stock head. I better check the compression anyway. What is normal for a stock motor?

 

I will also have to check to make sure that my fuel petcock isn't partially clogged. I guess it might have been starved for fuel.

 

If your around Sea Level (which...Grand Rapids is about the same as us, like 800 feet) you should be mid-120's...

Good point, pull the fuel valve and make sure the on and reserve screens aren't clogged.

[Twyztid]

If your around Sea Level (which...Grand Rapids is about the same as us, like 800 feet) you should be mid-120's...

Good point, pull the fuel valve and make sure the on and reserve screens aren't clogged.

 

Yes, I will check that.

 

Would bad reeds cause any of these problems? I haven't checked those either yet mainly because I don't have new gaskets for them so I didn't want to take them apart.

[dajogejr]

Yes, I will check that.

 

Would bad reeds cause any of these problems? I haven't checked those either yet mainly because I don't have new gaskets for them so I didn't want to take them apart.

 

An air leak from the reed cages might, but normally...chipped or broken reeds will cause it to backfire, miss..etc., not diesel on you.

[Twyztid]

An air leak from the reed cages might, but normally...chipped or broken reeds will cause it to backfire, miss..etc., not diesel on you.

 

OK, well, I will try to get time to check some of this stuff out tonight or tomorrow night and let you know what I come up with. I won't get home until later both nights so I won't be able to run it and check for air leaks until Wednesday. I live in a residential area and it's too loud to run after say 9:00pm. I might not even get a chance to do that this week. I am going out of town Thursday about noon for the weekend.

[dajogejr]

Good luck to you...I understand completely...

I cringe starting mine up as well...out of frame drag pipes, etc. If I have to start it at home, I try to do so in the absolute middle of the day....not too early, not too late, and usually never let it run for more than 1 minute or 2....

 

I did purge at my house a few weeks ago...so, that was 2 to 3 minutes.

 

I try to respect my neighbors as best as I can...

 

Let us know!!!