SLORYDER
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Posts posted by SLORYDER
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I say go for the cheetah.
Tons of bottom end grunt that blends seamlessly into that top end rush.
WAY more enjoyable to ride and much less tiring than the cub.
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There's 2 ways to build a banshee. The fast way and the slo way.
the fast way is expensive! I didn't shave my head. I ditched my base gaskets. Raised my exhaust made my intake look way fuckn thirsty and carved out the top of my pistons to keep the transfers open a Lil bit longer
Cost $40
Shees not slow! Shee wants to hurt me .... Cuz I beat her
I got a whole top end on eBay for $120 planned on sending it to a builder but I don't really trust them anymore thanks to all you jerkoffs. 12 grand for a boat motor bunch of fags
LOL.
Did you really do all that? Did you notice a good bump in performance?
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um, prime example of you reading what you want. that's not what he said. how many times just in the past couple days has someone sated "THAT'S NOT WHAT HE SAID"????
once again, reading what you want. i looked at all that info, then looked again, then studied, ran some numbers, and looked again.......yep, 5 minuets later, it's still a dangerous ass setup. i'd put money that some tr-6's would demolish that topend, and any pipe mid-top+, as well as any pipe that would be high efficiency for stock setup. you would need a pipe that is all bottom end, and one that likes more flow than that setup can produce, to keep the return pulse weak enough. you would also need to keep the timing stock, and not allow for any wear. basically good for 1 weekend at some event, and you're done. same as- you can run 19ccdomes on 93oct.@asl, and real hard, no problems, but several hours setting it up all the time, and the slightest problem will fuck it up.
reading what you want....again.....
not argueing over .005" is like not arguing over 5 degrees timing. yes, there is a point where .001" means the difference between the piston hitting the dome, or not, detonation, preignition, and wear limits. it's not an "about" number, but an exact, and changes all the time, as the engine wears. i think since all that matters is what macdizzy says, all that you hear is the sweat dripping of his nuts(which probably sounds however you want it to, aswell) and no one wants to listen to what you demand here, you should just go pester him untill he realizez giving you info is a really bad idea.....seeing what you do to good info.
Dude you're more interested in putting me down than anything else. I bet you can hardly sleep at night huh.
Give it a break my friend. That engine rick built IS made for all bottom end. He has 700 X the experience you have building engines. I would love for you two to discuss it formaly. Perhaps I can arrange a meeting.
Even you said you ran a head cut .030", when daj said it would destroy the engine, but you could care less about attacking him.
All I am saying is that if you are going o stick with pump gas cut your head .025-.030". If you want a better setup get custom domes or let Brandon mill your head for cheaper. Most people do not need a cool head plain and simple.
You just can't stand to see me win. It is pathetic. Like a little girl.
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Thats 100% what i was getting at. Nice post.
Makes sense to me.
I think it is safe to say that an off the shelf cool head dome isn't going to be a significant increase in performance over the stock milled head. Nor will the cooling properties be significantly better.
If you want something significantly better than the stock milled head you need domes custom cut to your app.
So we have about 80% of the voters that say the cool head is worth it, compared to probably 10% in real life who really truthfully could benifit from one.
But I'm the brainwashed one
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What all do u need ...
Harness, voltage reg, cdi.
Everything but the stator, lights ect
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Round plug
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I've seen gains by as much as 10% just by switching to a custom dome design without adding compression.
A custom chamber can taylor the power to suit your style of riding.. wich is huge!!
Please give us the specs of the motor you are talking about.
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So that 2-3 HP on the butt dyno isn't worth it? Or couldn't be felt?
There's been so many #'s and so much horse crap thrown around in this I hope no one actually tries to get anything from it.
A cool head on pump gas will get you roughly 3-5 horsepower. So will a stock milled head.
It's not difficult to understand.
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You claimed stock head squish was .068.
Lop off .035 gives you .033.
So...I will retract my statement.
Lop off .033 to get your .035 squish.
My point is if you are going to mill more than .020 you should have it done professionally, it should be milled and re chambered for your motor based on it's measurements.
I believe you are being overly conservative, but that is just my opinion.
I think that .025" would be a good safe conservative number.
But I hate to argue over .005" so let's just agree to disagree.
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I didn't disagree with my self.. a stock head CAN be just as good as a cool head.. But not from a mil alone.
The domes that come with a cool head ARE NOT the same design as a stock head and are a more effiecent design.
I didn't say they were not more efficient. I said the difference would be in-perceivable in a real world scenario. Definately not worth an extra 1-200 dollars.
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Dont get me wrong.. a stock head is a option and can be just as good as a cool head for less money..
I dont beleive on a pump gas setup that the gains of milled head is worth it either. Now a mill and rechamber by someone who KNOWS dome design taylored to your motor (port specs) and your riding style.. WELL worth it.
You just Disagreed with yourself.
I think a stock milled head approx .025" to .030will give you essentially the same gains as running a cool head. if someone is rechambering to your particular engine, rpm ceiling ect then you might get a noticeable gain from having the domes CUSTOM milled. I will agree with you there.
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You are talking about an 8k rpm motor. I don't believe .033" squish would work in 10k rpm motor?
No sir.
That engine is set up for a max of 8000
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We had experienced teachers and instructors/aides with years and years in the business watching over them...I'm pretty sure those old timers knew how to run a machine. Some of the instructors actually cut the parts because they just thought it was cool and different than the normal jobs/requests.
You make is sound so simple..so anyone can just mill of .035...right?
I didn't mean piston ring, I meant you could see a "ring" on the dome of the piston where it hit.
If you can see the piston ring hitting the dome...I'd say you have other problems...like crown missing.
Maybe we should've looked you up 15 years or so ago...you were probably a leader in the industry then, too...
Nooooo
I didn't say to just chop off .035.
I said you can bring your squish down to .035" if you know what you are doing. Although people HAVE lopped off .035" before, with no ill effects. No piston to head contact for sure.Maybe you forgot to put the base gasket on?
Ricks file that I uploaded is set up for .033" squish. it has also been rechambered but that has nothing to do with piston to head contact.
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Like I said.. there is ways to bandaid it and cover up the problem.. at the exspense of HP...
I'll buy that.
I just don't believe that on a pump gas setup that the difference will be significant enough to warrant spending money on a cool head.
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Sorry bro I sold it last night.
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It's the non-crossover type intakes and havle a faux carbon fiber overlay.
I will include a plethora of jets
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nothin is instant.. But that file you posted is some pretty good proof. Look at the MSV, and thats only a .038 squish. I'm by no means a expert on dome design. When squish gets tighter.. your MSV increases along wit heat. So if you mill the stock head with out rechambering.. the MSV COULD (depending how much was taking off) be too high and cause deto and lead to piston failure. Now.. you can run a tighter squish if the band and angle have been adjusted to compensate. But were not talking a rechambered dome.. we're taling a stock dome design with increased compression.. Some dome designs are more prone to engine failure then others.. Some can get by bandaiding the problem. Orcourse at the exspense of HP. Again.. i'm no expert but.. take it for what it is.. My opinion.
From what I gather from that file, you are at the safe limit on 90 octane.15 to 30. It is at 30.7, which is juuuuust beyong the absolute safe limit. At 90 octane.
Rick has been fooling with this software for years and years. I have complete faith in his word. If he says .035" is fine, .030" on a tight engine I believe him. Like I said, people go down to .038" on the stock head all the time and never have problems.
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Because I've made the mistakes you are preaching about...
When I was in high school and didn't have the money we'd be in shop class F'in with things instead of working on lawn mowers and weed eaters.
We'd go over to the machine shop and have them cut stuff up for us.
What else was there to do in HS?
We've taken stock heads and mill off .010 at first, then .020...and so on.
And then we'd blow 'em up. Mind you...this was on stockers with pipes and our own clean up/hack port jobs, not on professionally ported motors, strokers, aftermarket cylindes. This was before overrides and lockups...and before the mainstream cast/billet cylinders. If you wanted a 4 mil, you ran a spacer plate or cut domes....or a 7 mil or 10 mil. There weren't cylinders cast for this kidna thing.
We didn't know anything about rechambering heads, we just knew if you took X amount off you'd get more horsepower from the added compression. We'd grind our own OEM timing plates and guess.
I was always pretty good with carbs...so I'd make sure they were tuned right. I'd be lying if I said they were perfect every time...but what setup is?
We'd have different fuels and oils at our disposal (thanks to local vendors/shops for sponsoring the small engine program we had).
We ran Turbo Blue back then, which I believe is 108 or 110 octane.
Once we got past .025 they didn't last long. We'd bore 'em, replace the factory cast pistons with Wiseco forged...and do it again (thinking hey. the motor was worn...they were cast pistons. We're used to running forged pistons in our cars for NOS...so they must be better for a reason right? So we'd put forged in...and break them again.
This was years ago, before digital cameras, Internet, etc. So obviously I have no picture proof, etc. Just my memories...
And...
All I did was have the machine shop at school lop the surface. NO chambering, etc. So, essentially...doing exactly what you said you've done...and we'd break pistons. You could actually see the ring on the piston where it came to close and hit the head...and the cranks were fine, by the way.
I had no concept of chambering heads back then, no knowledge of dome design, rise, deck height, msv, etc.
I just knew with a little bubble gum, duct tape, WD40 and elbow grease we could have some fun...and we broke shit more than we probably rode it.
Is that good enough, or should I ask Macdizzy if they concur?
Seriously this is the first I hear of having problems from milling more than .025". Contact namely.
I mean, you were in high school. You had high schoolers milling your head.
Do you think that perhaps a mistake was made somewhere.
You say the ring hit the head? The ring should be no less than .100" from the head at tdc. How did the ring hit the head? Something was out of wack.
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UCCR isn't want dictates octane usage.
there is cranking compression, UCCR, CR, timing, jetting, and other things.
if you use just one of these to get have type of fuel you are going to use is not correct.
and why wont you respond to my question?
If I don't answer your questions it is because I have you on ignore from being a hemroid.
It's time to chill.
The reason I said uccr is what dictates octane, it because I was trying to get the fact across that cranking compression is almost useless in determining what type of fuel to run.
He is making it sound like the only reason he didnt deto with that much milling, is the fact that his exhaust port height knocked his compression enough to warrant pump. Whenin fact he could be running 220 degrees of exhaust duration and still deto, even though his cranking compression is only 120.
UCCR is the dominant factor in determining octane requirements. If you are on the edge, compensate with fuel/ timing.
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I'm far from upset. And I admit when I'm wrong, when I'm actually wrong. It happens.
It seems being wrong...and being wrong in YOUR mind are two totally different things.
So...I humbly admit I am wrong in your mind. I will seek all my information going forward with all my builds through you.
I'd appreciate if you could run my configurations through your extensive contact list and add in your own personal experience...and let me know what you come up with.
My accomplishments at the track? They mean nothing. I'm sure with your knowledge and experience I could easily shave a full second off my 300 foot times, make all those guys who don't have your knowledge (you know, all the top builders in the country) sorry they didn't take your word as gold either.
I will personally tell them they are wasting their time...they could just consult you for all the answers.
We should all be so lucky. I will furthermore inform all the voters (or the majority of them, over 70% last I checked on this thread) they are misguided and wrong. I will try to convince them you are the light at the end of the tunnel, you hold all the knowledge...and questioning your reasoning and seasoned experience would just be wrong.
On a final note...I fully agree with your last sentence about who America voted into office.
Maybe he could come to you for advice too. I bet you're just as seasoned at government as you are engine building/tuning.
SLORYDER for President 2012...you heard it here first.
I love you too.
Answer me one thing though.
Where is YOUR extensive research and proof that states why .035" squish will instantly destroy your engine?
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Slo, from the couple builders I have talked to and what I have read a good safe squish should be between .040 and .045. Under .038 you really need to know that all your other parts are in damn good shape if you expect your RPMs to be on the higher side. You really can't measure the true amount of streth in all your parts at high rpms. So to keep safe you should try to stay above .040. So if you have a stock head and you want more compression then what shaving down to .040 can get you, you should have the head rechambered. If your motor is stock or a very mild port meant for more of a low to mild range then yeah you could maybe go a little tighter with for squish.
Here is my run down:
Stock motor looking for a compression bump, shave the head down to .040 squish
Stock motor looking to run race fuel, rechamber or cool head
Ported motor looking to run either pump or race fuel, rechambered or cool head
(I think if your spending the money for a port job at least have the builder rechamber your head to his specs)
If you have an idea your going to possible be changing setups a few time go cool head.
It seems that the cooling between the two is pretty close with some saying the cool head helps and some saying it doesn't.
The hp difference between cool head domes and a rechambered head are about the same.
So I think a lot of it comes down to, are you going to stick with one setup or do you have a feeling your going to be doing some upgrades and changes that will require head changes.
Some believe .040" is a safe number, some believe .035". I've even heard of .030" on a banshee engine.
From what I gather, banshees are just tighter engines than most. On a 250R for instance, I believe .040" is around the absolute minimum. Banshee it is .030".
Basically everyone that has milled their head .030", has knocked their squish down to around .038", and I have never heard of any engine destruction. And I know for sure at least one of them had an aggressive port job.
I tend to agree with most of what you said though, and I appreciate your civil approach.
Stock or ported other than full drag pump gas shave .025" - .030". If it were me I'd go .025" at my elevation
Mildly ported race fuel or methanol rechamber or cool head.
Drag ported racefuel or methanol rechambered head or cool head.
Which still goes back to what I've said from the get go. I believe that less than 20% of banshee owners will ever NEED a cool head.
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And in MDS's case, his portjob affected his compression alot. I thought you said .030 shaved off the head and squish not corrected would lead to needing race fuel? 150 psi cranking most likely doesn't need pump fuel, depending on a few other factors. But since shit usually only matters based off one factor, like you've made clear OVER and OVER again, we'll say he doesn't need race gas.
His port job only aaffected his cranking compression, not his uccr. uccr dictates octane requirements.
I said to be on the safe side 50/50 should be used at that level.
It appears though that premium is probably fine in most cased.
I stand corrected on that.
And the fact that mccain lost doesnt speak as much of him, as it does of the ignorance of the voters. Kind of like this poll.
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What have I said that makes me a moron? I disagree with your 'widely accepted opinion'?
I'm being perfectly civil about this, please let me know though.
Apparently you are just looking for ANYTHING to attack.
You see some red writing on a graph that you really don't know squat about, and you try to attack it.
You're acting like a girl.
Rick is the most conservative builder I know and he would never do something to a customers engine that would cause him to doubt it reliability for one second.
i keep blowing head gaskets mod quad
in Banshee Repairs and Mods
Posted
Pull the heads and inspect the mating areas closely for defects.
If there are none, make sure that you're torquing the head down to spec.
If all else fails, get your stock head rechambered by Brandon at Mull. Stock type head gaskets are much more reliable, plus you will get a dome custom cut to your bike.
GL